Oregon School Shooting

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Silvertusk
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Silvertusk »

B. W. wrote:To those of you in other countries who do not understand why the USA has a 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms and are into name calling /ridicule anyone who supports the right to bear arms you may not like what I am about to write.

First off, the democratic socialist style governments overseas only had the chance to last as long as is has is due to the fact that the US Military oversaw the defense of the west during the cold war years. We supplied the means to deter over Soviet aggression; therefore, many of your governments could do all those wonderful social programs for you without the need for a strong military budget. Also, you all appear to me to trust your government’s benevolence implicitly. Maybe this is due in part to your national history being of subjects to monarchies which led to this mindset, I don't know. However, it is clear that you trust your government to do the right thing. As CS Lewis wrote in the Screwtape Letters in England a man was once taxed for cutting his his own tree down in his own yard along with a tax on the use of the ax. He used sarcasm in this example to show at what lengths people trust progressive style governments like a frog being slowly boiled in water. I am sure you all have some very whacky laws and unnecessary regulations you all do not like but as as Screwtape alluded too - they put up with this sort of thing.

America at one time from 1945 to 1989 was once thought of, and rightly so, as the bastion against Tyranny of Soviet aggression and world domination. WE spent billions of dollars to ensure nations like yours could follow the progressive socialist utopias unhindered as you all did not have to amass mass capital to defend you counties. The USA did this for you. In doing so, the enemies of this bastion sought hard how to rid the world of the USA and began a long slow series of internal means to ensure our destruction. They have succeeded.

Much of this has taken place and America is basically no more. We have lost. There is no hope, no future, nothing left in America except balkanization and the USA dying for the sins of the world against its stand against tyranny. WE are a dead country. You all can no longer count on us to come to your aid if you are attacked. Islam in many of your countries is an overwhelming force. There is no one now who can stand with you. America has been defeated from within.

You may trust your government, but we don’t in the USA because we who once knew Americas greatness, do not. Our current government is not – let me repeat, NOT Benevolent like yours. Ours is corrupt. One party seeks absolute control over every aspect of its living citizens with tyrannical god like control. If you disagree with it, you are targeted by the IRS, ridiculed, shouted down into silence. Maybe you all are used to this tyranny, but I don't think so, we are not pleased with it either.

The founding Fathers of this Country rebelled against the divine right of Kings and central planning that – that brought about and set up a system of divided government, with checks and balances, as well as a Bill of Rights for its Citizens. In that Bill was the 2nd amendment which was for protection against marauders as well as a marauding tyranny of Govt who betrays its social contract – the US Constitution - with its citizens. If this is done away, who will protect us from the bullies in Govt?

You all saw and some of you felt the heel of Communism on your necks. You had your Governments lead you into WW1 and faced invading host of Hitler’s armies two decades later. Your Governments are not like ours. However, like your history, and you having enemies that sought your destruction, so do we. Now they are in power and in our Govt. Our country is dead, and none will come to our aid. Central planning has won. The anti-Christian hate here in America is growing. The Govt supports more single mothers wed to Govt and supports racism of revenge against the non-existing white privilege. That so called privilege may have been true in the 1960’s and in England in the 19 and 20 centuries with its spread of colonialism and white man’s burden, but in the USA that fizzled out in the 1960’s and 1970’s. I saw it and lived during that era during the civil rights era when it thankfully died. Racism was dying out and almost gone by 2009. Then came Obama and the poverty pimps and vamped it up again, this time, people of color racism based solely upon revenge against something that no loner existed.

Well our country is dead, not because of school shootings but due to liberal policies that seek to destroy the social order by letting out the violently crazy people from mental institutions. The assault on morality in America and the glorification of perversity has taken its toll. In your countries, you all address the issue if the criminally insane in a sane rational manner and actually make laws that are enforced. In the USA, that is not so as the crisis is viewed as needed to be perpetuated to bash and bludgeoned to death what was once good in America. That is the differences between our countries: politics.

So I guess you all can rejoice, America is dead and now tyrants of the world unite – the world is all yours, Europe is yours, America is yours, Communism, Islam, rejoice you won!

However, violent crazy people still do kill with knives, sticks, clubs, axes, fertilizer, explosives, so when will your country outlaw knives, scissors and even bare hands? Is that possible? After all, these kill too. No, again guns do not kill, nor knives or scissors, but people do. So it would be best to outlaw people and confine us all to our homes for life with no social interaction at all as that is the only sensible solution.

You see, in America, we don’t rust our govt like you all trust yours. Ours has turned on its citizens and any who dare question it are punished by ostracization or the IRS. So rejoice, America is dead. Be happy about that. Go ahead and believe the propaganda of our main stream media in its insane endeavor bring America down.

I will like to pop your bubble though before I go. There are no gun shots outside my door, no mass killings occurring as I walk down the street. The media would have you believe America is a mass of shootings, rapes, pillaging, crime and that it is not safe shop at the grocery store. In fact, the mass majority of America is still a very nice place with very nice folks who will help you change your flat tire if needed. However, you can’t tell this by the news media who only focus is on the bad with an political agenda for this action attached.

Like your big cities, there are bad places where folks need to avoid due to the depravity of human nature which is common to the human race, we have ours. The more the Democratic Party holds hostage peoples of color in poverty just to use them to canvass votes by telling lies about the evil Republicans and Independents wanting take away the goodies people of color are enslaved too – crime runs rampant in those parts. There are more shootings in Chicago ILL than anywhere else and all in the democrat party voting stronghold. Odd isn't it?

Elsewhere, outside these liberal meca’s of civil society, the crime rate is so very low that it is quite safe – just as it is your country. Please don’t be fooled by the media….
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Interesting post - and you are obviously passionate about it - but to me still that does not justify a rule that allows a person to carry a gun on his person. Nothing will convince me otherwise - and this simply is not the way Jesus taught. And here in Britain we are trying to remove knives off the street as well. Yes there are mental issues involved in these shootings - but these innocent people would not have died if the lunatic had not been able to get hold of the guns in the first place.

Have to agree to disagree on this one. But I do sincerely apologise if my earlier outburst offend you in any way. y>:D<
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

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Silvertusk wrote: Interesting post - and you are obviously passionate about it - but to me still that does not justify a rule that allows a person to carry a gun on his person. Nothing will convince me otherwise - and this simply is not the way Jesus taught. And here in Britain we are trying to remove knives off the street as well. Yes there are mental issues involved in these shootings - but these innocent people would not have died if the lunatic had not been able to get hold of the guns in the first place.

Have to agree to disagree on this one. But I do sincerely apologise if my earlier outburst offend you in any way. y>:D<
If Britain successfully bans knives, then how're you going to cut the meat after the barbecue?
Also, how's the butcher gonna chop up some cow or lamb or chicken or pig or turkey?
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

SeekingSanctuary wrote:
Danieltwotwenty wrote:So if Jesus wanted us to defend ourselves with violence, how did we end up with so many martyrs.

I think it is dangerous to proof text the Bible to suit your ideology, pulling one passage out to back your claim is just ridicules, if we look at the bigger picture of what Jesus was saying I think he would want us to use non-violence.

Might as well stone a few adulterers because if we proof text the Bible that's what it says to do.
It isn't prooftexting, it is in context. They were going into a dangerous situation, they needed to be able to defend themselves against people. If I am prooftexting, please explain why Christ would instruct them to do so?

As to the question of martyrs, most were killed by a governing authority. There are differences between a governing authority and that of a random dude breaking into your house.

It is proof texting
"Prooftexting (sometimes "proof-texting" or "proof texting") is the practice of using isolated quotations from a document to establish a proposition."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prooftext , you're building a whole theology from one passage, if you read further Matthew 26:52 Jesus says
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Seems to me Jesus didn't want violence, but rather non violence, I could quote a ton more passages on nonviolence.

Maybe when Jesus said Luke 22:36-38
Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”
He meant to teach them a lesson later about using non violence. Just because he told them to bring them does not mean he condones the use of them.
Last edited by Danieltwotwenty on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

FlawedIntellect wrote:
Silvertusk wrote: Interesting post - and you are obviously passionate about it - but to me still that does not justify a rule that allows a person to carry a gun on his person. Nothing will convince me otherwise - and this simply is not the way Jesus taught. And here in Britain we are trying to remove knives off the street as well. Yes there are mental issues involved in these shootings - but these innocent people would not have died if the lunatic had not been able to get hold of the guns in the first place.

Have to agree to disagree on this one. But I do sincerely apologise if my earlier outburst offend you in any way. y>:D<
If Britain successfully bans knives, then how're you going to cut the meat after the barbecue?
Also, how's the butcher gonna chop up some cow or lamb or chicken or pig or turkey?
Please take notice of what Silver said below, I bold, underlined and italic the important bit.
And here in Britain we are trying to remove knives off the street as well
Last edited by Danieltwotwenty on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Proinsias »

FlawedIntellect wrote:If Britain successfully bans knives, then how're you going to cut the meat after the barbecue?
Also, how's the butcher gonna chop up some cow or lamb or chicken or pig or turkey?
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/con ... he-Law-FAQ might be worth a look if you're interested in the law in relation to blades over here.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by FlawedIntellect »

Proinsias wrote:
FlawedIntellect wrote:If Britain successfully bans knives, then how're you going to cut the meat after the barbecue?
Also, how's the butcher gonna chop up some cow or lamb or chicken or pig or turkey?
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/con ... he-Law-FAQ might be worth a look if you're interested in the law in relation to blades over here.
Thanks for the info.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Jac3510 »

Glad I live in a country where I can protect myself from idiots and crazies with guns. They'll pry my wife's protection from my cold, rotting corpse's hands.

edit:

hmm - maybe we could use the liberals' own convoluted logic against them. "If you don't like guns, don't get one." ;)
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

Jac3510 wrote:Glad I live in a country where I can protect myself from idiots and crazies with guns. They'll pry my wife's protection from my cold, rotting corpse's hands.

edit:

hmm - maybe we could use the liberals' own convoluted logic against them. "If you don't like guns, don't get one." ;)
The sad reality is your wife will statistically be killed or injured by her own weapon, I think Jesus said something about that. Matthew 26:52
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Jac3510 »

Typical liberal drivel. No offence intended, of course, but if you think I haven't heard it a million times you're deluded. It's just mushy thinking. There are serious solutions to the issue with gun violence, and your side's fixation on this one issue is actually contributing to the problem. I've recommended you read Generation to Generation[/i by Friedman before. I do once again. The problem is systemic, not linear. You've made guns the "identified patient." There is a reason that Britain is not talking about taking away knives, too.

The idiocy [of the Brits]. . .

Again, I'm serious when I say I don't intended any offence. But f you do choose to be offended, then note that I'm far more offended at the situation you would force my wife and children to find themselves in. The hubris [of you] . . .

You don't want a gun, don't get one. I have the right, the moral and the legal right, to protect my family from criminals who will have guns even if you ban them. Like I said. Try to take my protection from me. That won't end well. And this is a non-negotiable.
Last edited by Jac3510 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

Jac3510 wrote:Typical liberal drivel. No offence intended, of course, but if you think I haven't heard it a million times you're deluded. And if you choose to be offended, then note that I'm far more offended at the situation you would force my wife and children to find themselves in. The hubris . . .

You don't want a gun, don't get one. I have the right, the moral and the legal right, to protect my family from criminals who will have guns even if you ban them. Like I said. Try to take my protection from me. That won't end well. And this is a non-negotiable.

Why would I be offended?

I feel safe in my country knowing that firearms are hard to get, I do not fear for my family as I would if I lived in the USA. Fighting fire with fire is just pure stupidity, I would rather fight with words, love and peacefulness.
Last edited by Danieltwotwenty on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Jac3510 »

Note the edits above. As far as the claim to ignorance, I see that for precisely what it is: projection.

Come back and talk to me when you've actually learned something about systems thinking. Thankfully, though, you're uninformed opinions are thankfully meaningless since you have absolutely no say so over what we get to do in our country.

By the way, you should be careful about spouting off statistics to people. You don't know who or what you are dealing with or their history. My family has been personally and tragically affected by this debate. So bear in mind that your "high minded" liberality here is offensive to me on a visceral level. What you are arguing for has literally resulted in death in my family; and worse, I have other family that are part of your "statistics." You don't know what you are talking about.

I do. I've lived it.

But keep preaching and making assumptions about people you don't know.
Last edited by Jac3510 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

Jac3510 wrote:Note the edits above. As far as the claim to ignorance, I see that for precisely what it is: projection.

Come back and talk to me when you've actually learned something about systems thinking. Until then, you're uninformed opinions are thankfully meaningless since you have absolutely no say so over what we get to do in our country, and as such, I don't feel the need to argue with you on it.

Were you an American voter, that might be different.

:)

I edited it because I felt like I was stooping back down to your level of personal attacks, so I apologise for that.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Jac3510 »

I appreciate the edit. I'm not going to further edit mine, though. As I said, this is something I live with. I just hope that in the future you and others of your persuasion will think twice and check your assumptions before you make such statements. They can be extremely hurtful.
Proinsias wrote:I don't think you are hearing me. Preference for ice cream is a moral issue
And that, brothers and sisters, is the kind of foolishness you get people who insist on denying biblical theism. A good illustration of any as the length people will go to avoid acknowledging basic truths.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by Danieltwotwenty »

Jac3510 wrote:I appreciate the edit. I'm not going to further edit mine, though. As I said, this is something I live with. I just hope that in the future you and others of your persuasion will think twice and check your assumptions before you make such statements. They can be extremely hurtful.
What do you mean I don't live with it, we had out of control gun laws at one stage where they were easy to get and they were high powered semi auto rifles, since the tightening of our laws safety has improved. I lived through times where it was more dangerous, now I live in better circumstances. Do you think I have never had a gun shoved in my face or been in fear for my life, I don't think I have made any assumption and you seem to be making plenty.

You know your using the same logic as pro-abortionists,
you can't comment on abortion because you don't have a womb
.
Last edited by Danieltwotwenty on Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1Tim1:15-17
Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the worst. But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.Amen.
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Re: Oregon School Shooting

Post by melanie »

Jac3510 wrote:Glad I live in a country where I can protect myself from idiots and crazies with guns. They'll pry my wife's protection from my cold, rotting corpse's hands.

edit:

hmm - maybe we could use the liberals' own convoluted logic against them. "If you don't like guns, don't get one." ;)
Glad I live in a country where our Government (It was our conservative government in power at the time that changed the laws) had the good sense due to massive public opinion to regulate gun ownership and have strict licensing laws, that stops the idiots and crazies having access to guns in the first place.
What a outrageous notion, stop the reckless, crazy people having the guns. Wonder if that could work??
You seem to have such an attachment to your firearms, that not only would you readily pull the trigger to defend your wife but partake in a old western style shootout if anyone tried to take them off you, even if that resulted in your demise.
It is not only the guns but this type of thinking and gun culture in the US that is the issue.
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