Website called Bible and science

[Philip]

Phil wrote

Starhunter, just because God sometimes works supernaturally, don't assume that He doesn't MOSTLY - at least as we can observe and detect - also work through the mechanisms and parameters of the laws of physics, chemistry, thermodynamics that HE put in place to govern the universe. Whenever God supercedes these laws, that is, He works supernaturally, He is working outside of those laws. But they are HIS laws and they are what we observe most consistently. EVERY time I try to dunk a basketball, I realize that gravity is a barrier.



Starhunter: How do you apply this to the cause of the sun burning?

All stars, depending upon their mass, have a lifespan. Our sun is no different. It functions as do other stars of it's size and composition.

[Starhunter]

OK, science predicts the death of stars.

What I'm saying is that stars don't ever die according to the Bible. They are numbered by God and have individual names.

The theory of dying stars is based on the theory of what causes a star to burn, which is based on the latest fuel source discovered on earth being applied to the sun's activity. Which means its power will run out.

But the sun does not run on nuclear fission. That is only one of its properties.

It is impossible to argue with science, because all of their observations with exploding stars etc, are interpreted by their theory that stars are dying, and that exploding - (which is only one of thousands of activities that stars do) is an irreversible event.
Yet there is plenty of evidence that stars reform after an explosion. It just depends on which agenda one wants to push.

[RickD]

Here's the basics, but it explains stellar evolution. I really don't see any agendas here.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_evolution
It shows that stars certainly do die. Everything physical in this universe dies.

[Starhunter]

It's a working model of their theory. Just because the model works does not mean it's true.

Just because it suites their observations, half of which are false, does not mean it's true either.

It's like someone investigating what causes the power in a motor car. The manufacturer says it's an engine inside the car, which cannot be seen from the outside.

The scientists have another theory based on pure observation, without speculating on it's mysterious engine. They have proof that it is the wheels.

Here is the evidence - when the wheels begin to turn - the car moves, in fact, if the car falls half over a ditch the wheels keep spinning. You cannot argue with that. There is no proof for a magical "engine" inside somewhere.

That's what people like about science, it all about hard evidence - seeing is believing.


With the Bible it's believing is seeing. "By faith we understand..." that "the worlds were framed by the word of God," so that "the things which we see are not made of the visible elements," and that their existence and function depends on the "invisible forces in nature which are known by what is produced by them." Not just invisible forces of nature, "but the power of the God head" working through those agents put in place by Christ.

But you already knew that Rick D

[SeekingSanctuary]

Just because the stars are numbered doesn't mean they can't die. The bible says the hairs on my head are numbered, yet, I use Rogaine.

[Philip]

That's what people like about science, it all about hard evidence - seeing is believing.

All that we see IS only partially accurate, no doubt. But one can take such a belief to inaccurate conclusions. Is most of what we see is merely an illusion, or just merely incomplete? And Who gave man the ability to engage and learn from the scientific method if not God?

Are supernovas merely illusions? Did God give us things to observe that aren't real - so as to make us BELIEVE they are, but that in reality, aren't what they appear to be? Does God wish to deceive us? And we're told that "The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals KNOWLEDGE." And so, the testimony of the Heavens is from God and this gives us "knowledge." Is that knowledge a false testimony, designed to mislead us? Are stars dying or is God just fond of occasionally putting on for us a cosmic fireworks display, only for our awe and amusement?

[Starhunter]

Just because the stars are numbered doesn't mean they can't die. The bible says the hairs on my head are numbered, yet, I use Rogaine.

You, Rick D and Phil would agree that scientific method is a good thing, but it tends to lean on the doubting side.
If you receive a biscuit, you can enjoy eating it, or you can analyse it, ending up with is a test tube of soggy crumbs.

Most people don't live by doubt, analysis and suspicion, and neither do they believe everything straight away. Letting things go into the "to be sorted" file until it falls into category.

It seems to me that science is in too much in a hurry to find answers, answers which often don't matter, a whole lot of urgent conclusions based on the carnal mind. To view the universe as violent and dying, is just a habit of thinking. Coffin science.

Daniel 12:3 Does not have such a glum view of things.

I get that Phil seems to favor a balanced view, using God given knowledge, true, but hopefully believing more in the Bible than popular science.

I suppose the info on the universe is useful, but the conclusions drawn from those observations? I doubt the official circulated ideas - very much.

[RickD]

I rely on science, and not the bible when appropriate. For example, I wouldn't read the bible if I wanted to learn how to change the oil in my truck. I'd rely on an instruction manual for my vehicle.

Or if I want to bake chocolate chip cookies, I read the recipe, not Ecclesiates.

[Philip]

I rely on science, and not the bible when appropriate. For example, I wouldn't read the bible if I wanted to learn how to change the oil in my truck. I'd rely on an instruction manual for my vehicle.

Or if I want to bake chocolate chip cookies, I read the recipe, not Ecclesiates.

I thought clowns always ride in a clown car. Is that what the bumper sticker on your truck says that your other vehicle is?