Evidence for God from Science

I can send you a tape about a guy who went to Hell and came back. If anyone would like to hear it, I will send it for FREE. Just email me your request at: tmcrawley@aol.com
Then you can make your own decision on what you think it to be.[/code]

I've heard of that before. There's a book out...don't know how recent.....To Hell and Back. A doctor talked with people with near death experiences...and while some had the light at the end of a tunnel, peaceful, bliss, heaven vision....there are those who had the HELL version, and were scared to death. One lady that one of my teachers know saw her mother wake up, start screaming in a horrific manner, "NO NO NO NO!!!!" and then saw her die....and now she's in therapy. WE assume she saw hell....

And isn't hell talked about as "hot as hell?" In Revelations God is going to throw Satan and company into an eternally burning lake of fire...

In reply to "church lady" I am aware that many claim to have visions of both heaven and hell. Frankly they are so contradictory to each other
I simply am not interested. One man , who supposedly died after being stung by jelly fish found himself in a room that was totally black "utter darkness" , but no flame. One claimed Hell has a sign at the entrance, "Welcome to Hell" . Does that sound like God? I don't think so. On the heaven side people have all sorts of descriptions of it. None of them sounding at all desirable to me and frankly, unscriptural . I think it is dangerous to go outside the word and, as Richard Tripp explains , there is considerable (though not absolutely compelling) evidence that we should take "fire" as a symbol of destruction and great loss , not physical torment. Better to talk to people about the "weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth" that those who are lost will experience when they see others enter the Kingdom and themselves shut out. If this was to be much less of an ordeal than later "torment" why did the Lord even bother to mention it?

As I said, if ANYONE wants a free tape about hell just email me and I will be more than happy to send it to you!
If you look up the definition of hell it means Hades a place of the dead, place of eternal punishment. Mathtew five twentytwo talks about "you fool, wil be in th edanger of the FIRE of hell. Then verse twenty nine says " It is better to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. Humm... so far doesn't seem like a place that is in space, sounds like a permanent, eternal place that God doesn't want us in.. but lets read on some more shall we? Matthew eighteen nine says " It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two yese and be thrown into the FIRE OF HELL. Sounds like a physical to me. I can't imagine being THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL is phchological. Sounds like eternal torment w/the fallen angel. Mattew twenty three thirty three says" You snakes! You brood of vipers! How ill you escape being condemned to hell? Therefore I am sending you prophets and teachers. To me this one tops it all: Luke sixteen verse twenty three: In hell, where he is in TORNMENT, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him " Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the TIP of his finger in WATER and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this FIRE." wow... and this man asked for the TIP OF A FINGER TO BE DIPPED IN WATER. That sounds like a HOT place to me. Then it says" But Abraham replied, Son, remember that in your lifetime you recieved your good things, and while Lazarus recieved bad things, but now he is comforted here( heaven) and your in AGONY. People come on.. how can you not think that hell is torment with fire and agony. Its in the BIBLE! I will end it with this. Please do not take these words lightly. In Hosea Chapter four verse six it says" MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED from the LACK OF KNOWLEDGE." It said DESTROYED. Well if anyone wants to chat w/me on this feel free to email me directly at: tmcrawley@aol.com also if anyone who hasn't given their life to Christ would like to please email me also. May God Bless and touch every soul who reads this.

We could debate the Lazarus & rich man "parable" endlessly. First it must be explained to me why a dab of water on the tip of a tongue would be wanted to cool a whole body enflamed? And how did the rich man in torment manage to speak? Try holding a match under just one finger and talking at the same time.

This possibility seems so unlikely that it does suggest the message is other than literal, surely . I suggest those who read church lady's comments also go back and read what Richard Tripp has to say on the root meaning of "Hades" and "Gehenna" . I found it enlightening.

My remarks are not from some man named Richard, but from THE BIBLE. Who cares what Richard has to say, I quoted what Jesus said and to me that says it all!

Church Lady , aren't you being a little arrogant here ?

I quoted what Jesus had to say too and Richard much more.

You have gone outside scripture to back up your claims. We have not , except to say that outside claims often don't square with scripture. However I am quite willing to leave it to other readers - and my view, and Richard's view ( he a senior minister of the Gospel incidently) is given cautionarily , as yours is not.

Ladies and gentlemen;....I started this thread as an enlightenment. Not a major debate to see who is right or wrong. I personnally don't believe that the lost will be tortured. The gift of salvation is free and for those that reject such a precious gift WILL BE "weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth". How many of us regret our mistakes in the past? How many of us took the wrong direction in life and had to deal with its consenquences? Well to be turned away from the love of GOD and to never experience it again;..... Well I would bet that I would be nashing weeping and wailing too.

Hi everyone...

just wanted to throw in a link if anyone wants to look at some more definitions of Hell and Hades..

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/

Philia....

This passage seems to answer the "are they on fire" question...

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Rev 14:11

John Stott (evangelical theologean of some note says : the 'torment of Revelation 14.10 , because it will be experienced in the presence of the holy angels and of thelamb, seems to refer to the moment of judgement , not to the eternal state. it is not the torment itself but its 'smoke' (symbol of the complete burning) which will be forever and ever.'

It is also significant that the statement that the smoke rises "for ever and
ever" seems to be an echo of almost identical words in Isaiah 34.10 where the prophet foretells God's judgement on Edom.
In Isaiah, these words are a immediately followed by the statement that,
"none shall pass through it for ever and ever.".In other words , it will be
completely devoid of human life.

Interesting spin on things

Also interesting to note that Jesus' teaching on hell was directed mostly to his disciples.

I can't think of a worse pain than having an unperishable body being burned for ever. Its just the opposite effect to having the glorified body dwell in the new creation. Its a sober reminder that God remains true to His characteristics of love and justice.

Dale Tooley wrote:John Stott (evangelical theologean of some note says : the 'torment of Revelation 14.10 , because it will be experienced in the presence of the holy angels and of thelamb, seems to refer to the moment of judgement , not to the eternal state. it is not the torment itself but its 'smoke' (symbol of the complete burning) which will be forever and ever.'

It is also significant that the statement that the smoke rises "for ever and
ever" seems to be an echo of almost identical words in Isaiah 34.10 where the prophet foretells God's judgement on Edom.
In Isaiah, these words are a immediately followed by the statement that,
"none shall pass through it for ever and ever.".In other words , it will be
completely devoid of human life.

Has that Edom Prophecy held Through?

Hades can also be interpeted as purgatory.
Lazarus & the rich man. I'm going to quote scott hahn a bit..."If the rich man was in hell, he would be full of hate, seeing as hell is a place of hatred. but he did not have an 'attitude' of hate." I'm quoting this by memory, so I'm not sure how exact that is...
I'm going to have to relisten to that tape by scott hahn and post again later...
God Bless!
Alanna Witzaney