Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:FORGET CHURCH

Go to a Messianic synagogue with your new Shelby! Think of the rumble the engine will make when you pull into the parking lot filled with VWs and Camrys and other sissymobiles!

FL

Shelby is my girlfriend. I couldn't very well take her and my wife! That would be awkward!

A perfect example of what happens when Christians fall away from church!
They start thinking objektophilia is alright.

RickD doesn't have to go to church. Nowhere in the Bible is church attendance commanded. As long as he only reads the KJV and speaks in tongues and never touches a drop of alcohol and gives 10% of his earnings to missions, and adheres to YEC, then he should be OK with God.

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:RickD doesn't have to go to church. Nowhere in the Bible is church attendance commanded. As long as he only reads the KJV and speaks in tongues and never touches a drop of alcohol and gives 10% of his earnings to missions, and adheres to YEC, then he should be OK with God.

FL

If that's the case, then I'm headed for the place even hotter, and even further "south" than Florida.

RickD wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:RickD doesn't have to go to church. Nowhere in the Bible is church attendance commanded. As long as he only reads the KJV and speaks in tongues and never touches a drop of alcohol and gives 10% of his earnings to missions, and adheres to YEC, then he should be OK with God.

FL

If that's the case, then I'm headed for the place even hotter, and even further "south" than Florida.

Commandments are not nowhere in the Bible anymore <~ The type you're searching for in scripture /// err

..for it is not about doing "sacrifice" this day and age .. after Christ showed us the way ~> it is about "Living in Christ" !!!

How then can you be a light to the world from your bedroom? ~> or from the comfort of a computer keyboard?

YOU CAN ANALYZE IT ANY WHICH WAY YOU LIKE ~> BUT AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE ~> YOU'RE STILL HIDING, AND YOUR LIGHT IS NOT SHINING!

YOU CAN ANALYZE IT ANY WHICH WAY YOU LIKE ~> BUT AFTER ALL IS SAID AND DONE ~> YOU'RE STILL HIDING, AND YOUR LIGHT IS NOT SHINING!

Lonewolf,

Do you think I'm a hermit? That I don't interact with people on a daily basis?

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:FORGET CHURCH

Go to a Messianic synagogue with your new Shelby! Think of the rumble the engine will make when you pull into the parking lot filled with VWs and Camrys and other sissymobiles!

FL

Shelby is my girlfriend. I couldn't very well take her and my wife! That would be awkward!

A perfect example of what happens when Christians fall away from church!
They start thinking objektophilia is alright.

What?
K,

I think I know you well enough to know you're joking about falling away from church. You are joking, right?

I am uncomfortable with this thread. I wrote on here yesterday but deleted it after I read it back, it was not a satisfactory reflection of what I was trying to get across, so I guess this is take two. Lonewolf, I am convinced that you are coming from a place of concern and love and I think that is commendable but I don't think that personally putting Rick as the subject matter in your viewpoint is the right way to go about it. Absolutely start a thread if your so inclined about the benefits of congregation, call it 'To congregate or not', people can then subjectively give their opinions and viewpoints without the feeling of it being directed at one person in particular. You have with good intentions singled Rick out, and I don't think it's fair. Rick is a big boy who can handle the criticism but I think when we are starting a thread we should keep it subjective and not personal. I think it is much more conducive to open, progressive discussion.
We do not go the church to find God anymore than a fish swims around to find the ocean, or a bird flies around to find the sky. The Almighty is everywhere, and most importantly within. The real 'church' the true 'church' lies with His body of believers not within a building, the modern religious institution we call church. "Whenever two or more gather in my name I am there with them". That can mean in a home, on the street, under a tree, witnessing to family and friends, striking a conversation with a stranger in the street.
The assumption that a Christian who decides to not 'congregate' within a religious institution is a lazy Christian who cannot make enough time, or is uneducated in scripture to make this decision, or is not witnessing for Christ or 'letting their light shine' is off base and not a true reflection why many have decided to turn away, not from our Lord, but from the institution church. I very solidly see myself as part of Christ's church even though I do not attend 'church' I am open if The Lord leads me to a 'body of believers' who glorify His name in truth and humility but I have not found this within organised religion. I am not talking about individuals but about the collective modern day institution church as a whole. Church is never a building and never a place. It is always people and always on those who God has saved. It is not my Church, your Church or our Church. The Church is the Body of Christ. He is the head. We do not go to that. We are that.
Every morning when we wake we should be Christ's 'church', letting His light shine through us, witnessing to all those around us through our actions and our love. Letting our light shine has nothing to do with the institution church, and everything to do with kindness, patience, understanding, generosity, and love to every one we come across, how we treat our fellow man, how we love especially those that don't love us, the kindness and light we bring to others on a daily basis is truly letting our 'light shine'.

Mat 18:20, "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst." NASB

To be technical about this matter, since there are two or more gathered here, is this then not Church

Church is an assembly of Christians, however they gather. It where they grow and become strong in the Lord. There are many people in Church buildings that produce no such growth but are great at growing good Laodiceans. Matthew 25 even mentions five wise and five foolish. So take your pick and heed how you are growing up in the Lord. What I teach folks, is this, why do I need to go to church - answer, because the church needs you. We can change the dead church into a live one that becomes that Hospital for the hurting wounded battered souls, that Rehabilitation Center aiding learning new creation life skills, and that embarkation center sending forth the healed with new skills to replicate Christlikeness wisely and not not foolishly asleep. Never doubt what Christ Jesus can do through you. Maybe I can send a drop box MP3 teaching on the church to someone how can post it on here for further info.
-
-
-

melanie wrote:I am uncomfortable with this thread. I wrote on here yesterday but deleted it after I read it back, it was not a satisfactory reflection of what I was trying to get across, so I guess this is take two. Lonewolf, I am convinced that you are coming from a place of concern and love and I think that is commendable but I don't think that personally putting Rick as the subject matter in your viewpoint is the right way to go about it. Absolutely start a thread if your so inclined about the benefits of congregation, call it 'To congregate or not', people can then subjectively give their opinions and viewpoints without the feeling of it being directed at one person in particular. You have with good intentions singled Rick out, and I don't think it's fair. Rick is a big boy who can handle the criticism but I think when we are starting a thread we should keep it subjective and not personal. I think it is much more conducive to open, progressive discussion.
We do not go the church to find God anymore than a fish swims around to find the ocean, or a bird flies around to find the sky. The Almighty is everywhere, and most importantly within. The real 'church' the true 'church' lies with His body of believers not within a building, the modern religious institution we call church. "Whenever two or more gather in my name I am there with them". That can mean in a home, on the street, under a tree, witnessing to family and friends, striking a conversation with a stranger in the street.
The assumption that a Christian who decides to not 'congregate' within a religious institution is a lazy Christian who cannot make enough time, or is uneducated in scripture to make this decision, or is not witnessing for Christ or 'letting their light shine' is off base and not a true reflection why many have decided to turn away, not from our Lord, but from the institution church. I very solidly see myself as part of Christ's church even though I do not attend 'church' I am open if The Lord leads me to a 'body of believers' who glorify His name in truth and humility but I have not found this within organised religion. I am not talking about individuals but about the collective modern day institution church as a whole. Church is never a building and never a place. It is always people and always on those who God has saved. It is not my Church, your Church or our Church. The Church is the Body of Christ. He is the head. We do not go to that. We are that.
Every morning when we wake we should be Christ's 'church', letting His light shine through us, witnessing to all those around us through our actions and our love. Letting our light shine has nothing to do with the institution church, and everything to do with kindness, patience, understanding, generosity, and love to every one we come across, how we treat our fellow man, how we love especially those that don't love us, the kindness and light we bring to others on a daily basis is truly letting our 'light shine'.

If we had a standing ovation emoticon, I would've used that too!

chill out melanie., it's just a world wide web topic., and the rick's dee's part was an aftertought to the title when i started this topic., it was never meant to put someone up against the wall., having said that, maybe i missed it if i offended rick or anybody else, if i did, i apologize for that., there's a ton of mod's in this place, anybody could of stepped up and called a foul., but that didn't happen, so? ., btw, you like talking a lot, don't you?

theophilus wrote:

RickD wrote:If it's something, as a brother in Christ, that's important to you, why don't you pray about it? At this point, nothing short of God personally changing my heart, and actually giving me a desire to go to a church, is going to get me to go. If it's His will, he will change my heart.

What if he gives you a command to go to church?

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
(Hebrews 10:24-25 ESV)

I have found that if I do something because God commands it and not because I feel like doing it he will then change my heart so that I want to obey.

Your assumption here is that modern 'church' practice is consistent with the "meeting" mentioned in the verse.
Is it? I find what we refer to as 'worship' less and less fulfilling. I do find meeting with believers very fulfilling. Whether that be prayer, or studying God's word, or singing a hymn. But these programmed services which have become known as church seem less and less "real" too me. In fact, I find them a very poor reflection of what exactly is and isn't happening in that particular congregation.

jlay wrote:

theophilus wrote:

RickD wrote:If it's something, as a brother in Christ, that's important to you, why don't you pray about it? At this point, nothing short of God personally changing my heart, and actually giving me a desire to go to a church, is going to get me to go. If it's His will, he will change my heart.

What if he gives you a command to go to church?

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
(Hebrews 10:24-25 ESV)

I have found that if I do something because God commands it and not because I feel like doing it he will then change my heart so that I want to obey.

Your assumption here is that modern 'church' practice is consistent with the "meeting" mentioned in the verse.
Is it? I find what we refer to as 'worship' less and less fulfilling. I do find meeting with believers very fulfilling. Whether that be prayer, or studying God's word, or singing a hymn. But these programmed services which have become known as church seem less and less "real" too me. In fact, I find them a very poor reflection of what exactly is and isn't happening in that particular congregation.

The first century churches meet in homes and the folks did all these things you mentioned and had a meal to where I imagine they talked to each other as friends do over a wide array of things, kidding around, and enjoying each others company. The modern church movement, developed over time with the same idea but later fell away form this early model due to a host of reasons, religious control, the Plague, wars, invasions, shortages, etc and etc of the post Roman World through the middle ages. Soon it was big buildings with frightening statues and images - icons - gloomy and stuffy formalism. Pay Johann Tetzel and from puragtory a soul springs to the modern give to get gospel...

Well, as long as we can meet with some folks, even here, we can real church an not the formal formaldehyde variety...
-
-
-

Even though the vast majority of my time here has been 'in the background' and continues to be, this IS one of my main 'churches'. I congregate with Christians here, and because of all of you and the HS within us, I grow in knowledge and wisdom of our Lord and His ways. This place is my home and even though I'm more or less of a shadow here, I have very real feelings about some members here I consider to be brothers and sisters. I've talked with you, watched you, learned from your wisdom and error, talked about you to the people on this end of the keyboard, prayed for you and praise God for your presence in my life. This is also my place of rest, where I can commune with fellow believers.

I have only one Christian friend 'IRL', and we talk for hours at a time about what I've learned from the HS, what he learns, about God working in our lives, reflection on God and taking excitement in learning the tiniest tidbit about Him. Even last week as we went for a couple hour drive in the mountains we talked the entire time with each other, this time more about the HS than the Father or Son, and as we gave each other advice/feedback/rebuke/ whatever we needed, at the end we noticed the advice we gave was what was recently revealed to us from the HS in answer to our own personal prayers or direction from the HS in life. It's a wonderful thing to be able to learn from others what God has shown them, that's a big part of being the body of Christ. And it's uncanny how many of my prayers have been answered through a lot of you, in the right time and the right way with the right words.

I stand by what I know to be the truth and strive to live lovingly with everyone I come in contact with. People know I'm Christian and because I'm patient and gentle with others I do get questions and I'm always willing to talk about our Lord. I had an ongoing conversation with a fellow worker over 5 hours one night just a week ago, and I'm sure it will continue in the future. I'll stand by our Lord and talk with others, but it's so tiring and trying to be immersed in a world that doesn't truly listen to what you say, or care about it. Christianity has become fantasy. Pride and envy I've found to be the biggest obstacles in someone coming into truth and the most prevalent of poison amongst our hearts. Going to a building, as I have growing up, doesn't surround yourself with the body of Christ. Congregating with fellow believers who know Christ is God and is our Messiah and King, the head of all of us, our Leader and Lord, even through all our misunderstandings about his ways, truly is necessary to keep ourselves aligned with him. And that is Sabbath. To work for others by how He has worked in us. Revelation of Him through the body. The community we make with ourselves to strengthen us through Agape, who is Yahweh.

This place is also a rest for me.

(And with Rick's jokes very refreshing )