Audie,Audie wrote:Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.PaulSacramento wrote:I don't understand your question...Audie wrote:First to get souls, that is unarguable.
The sole two ancestors of all humankind is unsupportable.
What role do you see for them?
What roles do I see for Adam and Eve?
Role in what way?
isnt that what "the fall" is all about?RickD wrote:Audie,Audie wrote:Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.PaulSacramento wrote:I don't understand your question...Audie wrote:First to get souls, that is unarguable.
The sole two ancestors of all humankind is unsupportable.
What role do you see for them?
What roles do I see for Adam and Eve?
Role in what way?
Where in the bible does it say that Adam and Eve are the cause of all suffering?
It should be noted that not ALL scholars viewed Paul's passage about "death entering the world through Adam" as being a LITERAL and concrete statement on HOW and WHY death entered the world.Audie wrote:isnt that what "the fall" is all about?RickD wrote:Audie,Audie wrote:Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.PaulSacramento wrote:I don't understand your question...Audie wrote:First to get souls, that is unarguable.
The sole two ancestors of all humankind is unsupportable.
What role do you see for them?
What roles do I see for Adam and Eve?
Role in what way?
Where in the bible does it say that Adam and Eve are the cause of all suffering?
Not quite.Audie wrote:isnt that what "the fall" is all about?RickD wrote:Audie,Audie wrote:Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.PaulSacramento wrote:I don't understand your question...Audie wrote:First to get souls, that is unarguable.
The sole two ancestors of all humankind is unsupportable.
What role do you see for them?
What roles do I see for Adam and Eve?
Role in what way?
Where in the bible does it say that Adam and Eve are the cause of all suffering?
Because you asserted something as biblical. I wanted proof for your assertion, from the bible. If you misunderstand something, it's better to ask, than to assert something based on false ideas.Audie wrote:So, why did you even ask?
The Garden in Eden remained a paradise because Adam and Eve were exiled from it.Audie wrote:Its my understanding that there was no death, no suffering, or any sort in Eden, prior to the incident with the serpent, according to the Bible. Their actions resulted in the introduction of all manner of ill to the world. If I got that wrong, then by all means tell me so.
Seems like you're conflating the garden of Eden, and the rest of the world.Audie wrote:Its my understanding that there was no death, no suffering, or any sort in Eden, prior to the incident with the serpent, according to the Bible. Their actions resulted in the introduction of all manner of ill to the world. If I got that wrong, then by all means tell me so.
RickD wrote:Seems like you're conflating the garden of Eden, and the rest of the world.Audie wrote:Its my understanding that there was no death, no suffering, or any sort in Eden, prior to the incident with the serpent, according to the Bible. Their actions resulted in the introduction of all manner of ill to the world. If I got that wrong, then by all means tell me so.
Is not the same thing as what you said here:Christians I have talked to seem to think that there were people named Adam and Eve, whose indiscretion brought down a lot of trouble on the rest of humanity to this day.
"Bringing down a lot of trouble", is different than being "the cause of all suffering".Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.
RickD wrote:What you said here:Is not the same thing as what you said here:Christians I have talked to seem to think that there were people named Adam and Eve, whose indiscretion brought down a lot of trouble on the rest of humanity to this day."Bringing down a lot of trouble", is different than being "the cause of all suffering".Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.
That's like saying, "I cause my wife a lot of trouble", is the same as "I'm the cause of all her pain".
See?
IF, of course, is said to be the longest word in the language!PaulSacramento wrote:According to some, the "death" that entered the world with the Fall was the death of the mankind in the spiritual sense.
That means that IF Adam and Eve hadn't sin and passed on that sin into the world ( the sin being the desire to be like God, to be separate from God, to not live for God but for themselves), humans would not die LIKE WE DIE now.
The relationship between humans and God would be so different, as the prophets said " I will be their God and they will be my people and I will wipe away all the tears and suffering" (Paraphrasing).
It is important to always remember that when the writers of the bible wrote they didn't just write, the WROTE, with passion and inspired by the HS.
Add to that that they were writing to a 1st century audience that understood what they were saying by HOW they said it, the words they used and HOW they used them.
When a fist century Jew of Gentile read/heard Paul say that death came into the world because of Adam and how salvation come into the world via Christ, what did he mean by that? in what context?
Paul was making a theological statement that, if as a Jew, you believed that through ONE MAN, death to all men came, then you SHOULD also be able to believe that by ONE MAN ( a very special one on top of all that) SALVATION come come to all as well.
and learned that they believe that at one time there was no death of any sort, and that the animals only started chomping eachother when Adam and Eve sinned.