Evidence for God from Science

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:First to get souls, that is unarguable.

The sole two ancestors of all humankind is unsupportable.

What role do you see for them?

I don't understand your question...

What roles do I see for Adam and Eve?
Role in what way?

Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.

Audie,

Where in the bible does it say that Adam and Eve are the cause of all suffering?

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:First to get souls, that is unarguable.

The sole two ancestors of all humankind is unsupportable.

What role do you see for them?

I don't understand your question...

What roles do I see for Adam and Eve?
Role in what way?

Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.

Audie,

Where in the bible does it say that Adam and Eve are the cause of all suffering?

isnt that what "the fall" is all about?

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:First to get souls, that is unarguable.

The sole two ancestors of all humankind is unsupportable.

What role do you see for them?

I don't understand your question...

What roles do I see for Adam and Eve?
Role in what way?

Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.

Audie,

Where in the bible does it say that Adam and Eve are the cause of all suffering?

isnt that what "the fall" is all about?

It should be noted that not ALL scholars viewed Paul's passage about "death entering the world through Adam" as being a LITERAL and concrete statement on HOW and WHY death entered the world.

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:First to get souls, that is unarguable.

The sole two ancestors of all humankind is unsupportable.

What role do you see for them?

I don't understand your question...

What roles do I see for Adam and Eve?
Role in what way?

Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.

Audie,

Where in the bible does it say that Adam and Eve are the cause of all suffering?

isnt that what "the fall" is all about?

Not quite.

So, why did you even ask?

Audie wrote:So, why did you even ask?

Because you asserted something as biblical. I wanted proof for your assertion, from the bible. If you misunderstand something, it's better to ask, than to assert something based on false ideas.

You said it's biblical that Adam and Eve are the cause of all suffering. I just wanted you to show me, from the bible, how you came to that conclusion.

Its my understanding that there was no death, no suffering, or any sort in Eden, prior to the incident with the serpent, according to the Bible. Their actions resulted in the introduction of all manner of ill to the world. If I got that wrong, then by all means tell me so.

Audie wrote:Its my understanding that there was no death, no suffering, or any sort in Eden, prior to the incident with the serpent, according to the Bible. Their actions resulted in the introduction of all manner of ill to the world. If I got that wrong, then by all means tell me so.

The Garden in Eden remained a paradise because Adam and Eve were exiled from it.
The bible does NOT mention what happened to the Garden in Eden after they left.

Audie wrote:Its my understanding that there was no death, no suffering, or any sort in Eden, prior to the incident with the serpent, according to the Bible. Their actions resulted in the introduction of all manner of ill to the world. If I got that wrong, then by all means tell me so.

Seems like you're conflating the garden of Eden, and the rest of the world.

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:Its my understanding that there was no death, no suffering, or any sort in Eden, prior to the incident with the serpent, according to the Bible. Their actions resulted in the introduction of all manner of ill to the world. If I got that wrong, then by all means tell me so.

Seems like you're conflating the garden of Eden, and the rest of the world.

Christians I have talked to seem to think that there were people named Adam and Eve, whose indiscretion brought down a lot of trouble on the rest of humanity to this day.

I dont beleive any of it, but if you have a different version, and care to say what it is, go for it.

What you said here:

Christians I have talked to seem to think that there were people named Adam and Eve, whose indiscretion brought down a lot of trouble on the rest of humanity to this day.

Is not the same thing as what you said here:

Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.

"Bringing down a lot of trouble", is different than being "the cause of all suffering".

That's like saying, "I cause my wife a lot of trouble", is the same as "I'm the cause of all her pain".

See?

RickD wrote:What you said here:

Christians I have talked to seem to think that there were people named Adam and Eve, whose indiscretion brought down a lot of trouble on the rest of humanity to this day.

Is not the same thing as what you said here:

Like, ancestor to all mankind, the cause of all suffering,those biblical things.

"Bringing down a lot of trouble", is different than being "the cause of all suffering".

That's like saying, "I cause my wife a lot of trouble", is the same as "I'm the cause of all her pain".

See?

Easy enough to see. So, is there some of the suffering on earth that is not what is
(supposedly) the result of A and E and their indiscretion? How do you sort it out?

According to some, the "death" that entered the world with the Fall was the death of the mankind in the spiritual sense.
That means that IF Adam and Eve hadn't sin and passed on that sin into the world ( the sin being the desire to be like God, to be separate from God, to not live for God but for themselves), humans would not die LIKE WE DIE now.
The relationship between humans and God would be so different, as the prophets said " I will be their God and they will be my people and I will wipe away all the tears and suffering" (Paraphrasing).

It is important to always remember that when the writers of the bible wrote they didn't just write, the WROTE, with passion and inspired by the HS.
Add to that that they were writing to a 1st century audience that understood what they were saying by HOW they said it, the words they used and HOW they used them.

When a fist century Jew of Gentile read/heard Paul say that death came into the world because of Adam and how salvation come into the world via Christ, what did he mean by that? in what context?

Paul was making a theological statement that, if as a Jew, you believed that through ONE MAN, death to all men came, then you SHOULD also be able to believe that by ONE MAN ( a very special one on top of all that) SALVATION come come to all as well.

PaulSacramento wrote:According to some, the "death" that entered the world with the Fall was the death of the mankind in the spiritual sense.
That means that IF Adam and Eve hadn't sin and passed on that sin into the world ( the sin being the desire to be like God, to be separate from God, to not live for God but for themselves), humans would not die LIKE WE DIE now.
The relationship between humans and God would be so different, as the prophets said " I will be their God and they will be my people and I will wipe away all the tears and suffering" (Paraphrasing).

It is important to always remember that when the writers of the bible wrote they didn't just write, the WROTE, with passion and inspired by the HS.
Add to that that they were writing to a 1st century audience that understood what they were saying by HOW they said it, the words they used and HOW they used them.

When a fist century Jew of Gentile read/heard Paul say that death came into the world because of Adam and how salvation come into the world via Christ, what did he mean by that? in what context?

Paul was making a theological statement that, if as a Jew, you believed that through ONE MAN, death to all men came, then you SHOULD also be able to believe that by ONE MAN ( a very special one on top of all that) SALVATION come come to all as well.

IF, of course, is said to be the longest word in the language!

I was so astonished when i spoke to a Jehovah's Witness... back when I didnt know any better... and learned that they believe that at one time there was no death of any sort, and that the animals only started chomping eachother when Adam and Eve sinned.

As a little child, I had a wonderful book of deep sea fish, with their extraordinary morphology, suited only to the deep cold water and very highly specialized for predation. Dont tell me those ate seaweed! i thought, and lost all interest in what they were telling me.