Evidence for God from Science

Chess, anyone?

FL

Furstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Chess, anyone?

FL

Why am I getting the feeling of déjà vu?

Stardust wrote:
I think your playing semantics here, yes he hasn't explained salvation word for word perfect as you'd describe it but i think you get the drift. You seem to be concentrating more on trying to find reasons the blogger de converted rather than tackling the real question of if we're worthy or not.

He's explained a completely different salvation than what's the message of salvation in the bible!!! The blog author has invented an unbiblical, false type of salvation. Then he proceeded to refute that false type of salvation.

And I already addressed your question if whether we're worthy. If you want to explain that quote to me in your own words, as you understand it, I will discuss it with you.

RickD wrote:

Stardust wrote:
I think your playing semantics here, yes he hasn't explained salvation word for word perfect as you'd describe it but i think you get the drift. You seem to be concentrating more on trying to find reasons the blogger de converted rather than tackling the real question of if we're worthy or not.

He's explained a completely different salvation than what's the message of salvation in the bible!!! The blog author has invented an unbiblical, false type of salvation. Then he proceeded to refute that false type of salvation.

And I already addressed your question if whether we're worthy. If you want to explain that quote to me in your own words, as you understand it, I will discuss it with you.

So if were not worthy of salvation then Jesus sacrifice isn't praiseworthy. You can't have both. We're either worthy of it or we aren't

Stardust wrote:

RickD wrote:

Stardust wrote:
I think your playing semantics here, yes he hasn't explained salvation word for word perfect as you'd describe it but i think you get the drift. You seem to be concentrating more on trying to find reasons the blogger de converted rather than tackling the real question of if we're worthy or not.

He's explained a completely different salvation than what's the message of salvation in the bible!!! The blog author has invented an unbiblical, false type of salvation. Then he proceeded to refute that false type of salvation.

And I already addressed your question if whether we're worthy. If you want to explain that quote to me in your own words, as you understand it, I will discuss it with you.

So if were not worthy of salvation then Jesus sacrifice isn't praiseworthy. You can't have both. We're either worthy of it or we aren't

Stardust,
Please explain why you came to that conclusion. I know the blog author states that, but why do YOU believe that?

And please keep in mind the definition of grace, and how God's grace relates to this issue.

RickD wrote:Please explain why you came to that conclusion. I know the blog author states that, but why do YOU believe that?And please keep in mind the definition of grace, and how God's grace relates to this issue.

No, no...you don't understand. They don't move the chess pieces with any forethought. They just knock them over.

FL

Stardust wrote:

RickD wrote:

Stardust wrote:
I think your playing semantics here, yes he hasn't explained salvation word for word perfect as you'd describe it but i think you get the drift. You seem to be concentrating more on trying to find reasons the blogger de converted rather than tackling the real question of if we're worthy or not.

He's explained a completely different salvation than what's the message of salvation in the bible!!! The blog author has invented an unbiblical, false type of salvation. Then he proceeded to refute that false type of salvation.

And I already addressed your question if whether we're worthy. If you want to explain that quote to me in your own words, as you understand it, I will discuss it with you.

So if were not worthy of salvation then Jesus sacrifice isn't praiseworthy. You can't have both. We're either worthy of it or we aren't

Jesus certainly believed we are worthy of salvation...

PaulS wrote:
Jesus certainly believed we are worthy of salvation...

Ok Paul. Help me understand what you mean. How are we worthy of salvation?

RickD wrote:

PaulS wrote:
Jesus certainly believed we are worthy of salvation...

Ok Paul. Help me understand what you mean. How are we worthy of salvation?

I didn't say we are worthy, I said that Jesus certainly believes we are, I mean, He did die for US, right? He did give us this amazing gift of Grace.
Would He have done that if He thought we were unworthy? undeserving of this gift?

There is nothing we can DO to be worthy of course, but that Jesus sees value ( ie: worth) in Us is quite clear IMO.

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:

PaulS wrote:
Jesus certainly believed we are worthy of salvation...

Ok Paul. Help me understand what you mean. How are we worthy of salvation?

I didn't say we are worthy, I said that Jesus certainly believes we are, I mean, He did die for US, right? He did give us this amazing gift of Grace.
Would He have done that if He thought we were unworthy? undeserving of this gift?

There is nothing we can DO to be worthy of course, but that Jesus sees value ( ie: worth) in Us is quite clear IMO.

You didn't say we are worthy, but Jesus believes we are? That's doublespeak. Jesus is God. If he believes something to be true, it must be true.

If we were deserving, it wouldn't be by grace. Grace says, "I'm giving you this gift even though you don't deserve it. Grace is unmerited.

Would He have done that if He thought we were unworthy? undeserving of this gift?

Again, yes. Because that's grace! We are saved by grace! Because He is worthy. Not us.

Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?

Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Romans 5:8

PaulSacramento wrote:Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?

Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Romans 5:8

Of course He values us. Because of who He is. Tell me then, what makes us worthy of salvation? And show me from scripture.


****edit

Paul, don't you understand salvation by grace? And that grace is unmerited? If we were worthy of salvation, we wouldn't need grace to be saved!

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?

Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Romans 5:8

Of course He values us. Because of who He is. Tell me then, what makes us worthy of salvation? And show me from scripture.


****edit

Paul, don't you understand salvation by grace? And that grace is unmerited? If we were worthy of salvation, we wouldn't need grace to be saved!

Rick,
If he VALUES us, it means He believes we are worthy.
WE don't have ANY right or reason to believe we are BUT God does.
I am not arguing against grace.
Unmerited favour means there is nothing you can DO not that you have no value.

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?

Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Romans 5:8

Of course He values us. Because of who He is. Tell me then, what makes us worthy of salvation? And show me from scripture.


****edit

Paul, don't you understand salvation by grace? And that grace is unmerited? If we were worthy of salvation, we wouldn't need grace to be saved!

Rick,
If he VALUES us, it means He believes we are worthy.
WE don't have ANY right or reason to believe we are BUT God does.
I am not arguing against grace.
Unmerited favour means there is nothing you can DO not that you have no value.

Ephesians, chapter one comes to mind.

Lonewolf wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

RickD wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Rick, that doesn't make any sense.
Sorry.
If Jesus died for US it means that He values Us, there is no way around it.
Matthew 6: 26
26 Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they?

Matthew 10:31
Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Romans 5:8

Of course He values us. Because of who He is. Tell me then, what makes us worthy of salvation? And show me from scripture.


****edit

Paul, don't you understand salvation by grace? And that grace is unmerited? If we were worthy of salvation, we wouldn't need grace to be saved!

Rick,
If he VALUES us, it means He believes we are worthy.
WE don't have ANY right or reason to believe we are BUT God does.
I am not arguing against grace.
Unmerited favour means there is nothing you can DO not that you have no value.

Ephesians, chapter one comes to mind.

Where does Ephesians 1 say we are worthy of salvation?