Evidence for God from Science

Wait a minute...isn't the article supposed to be SATIRE? I mean...it says SATIRE at the end of the article.

RickD wrote:Wait a minute...isn't the article supposed to be SATIRE? I mean...it says SATIRE at the end of the article.

I did wonder if anyone noticed that.

Stu wrote:

Byblos wrote:It'd be nice if you can provide a link or 2 but:

And you don't? How do you know atheists don't profess belief at the momment of their death? How do you know those who have never heard the gospel don't have the same crack at salvation as you do?

Are you serious??

“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience."

link deleted by moderator. Please find another source that doesn't have ads with bare breasted women

Can you honestly defend these words from the Pope, that you do not need Christ, simply obey your conscience.

You are so blinded by his majesty that you will seemingly defend anything the Pope says or does. Don't let a fallible human being rule your life, but rather obey God and His word.

Now I really insist on a quote, otherwise please retract.

"If they accept the Lord and have good will, who am I to judge them?"

A google search will find you plenty of sources but here is one Source

Some of the stuff Pope Francis is saying is the reason why I am going to go back to the Catholic church... despite some teachings I contest.

"As for the three questions you asked me in the article of August 7th. It would seem to me that in the first two, what you are most interested in is understanding the Church's attitude towards those who do not share faith in Jesus. First of all, you ask if the God of the Christians forgives those who do not believe and do not seek faith. Given that - and this is fundamental - God's mercy has no limits if he who asks for mercy does so in contrition and with a sincere heart, the issue for those who do not believe in God is in obeying their own conscience. In fact, listening and obeying it, means deciding about what is perceived to be good or to be evil. The goodness or the wickedness of our behavior depends on this decision."
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/0 ... ef=HRER3-1

The bible says Jesus came to save sinners, the lost, the world. I believe that. I believe that some atheists will be saved some way, some how. Some atheists do a better job at loving their neighbour and giving than some Christians. Some such atheists are the gentiles that have the law of God written on their hearts. I believe this refers to innate morality that was created in Adam, without law, in the reflection of Gods image.

The overall point being of course, it is better to safe than sorry! I would advise to err on the side of caution, honour God, pray for faith and if you have faith bigger than a mustard seed, then pray for more faith. But mostly, begg for forgiveness because it is highly unlikely that any faith/church, Christian or not, has got every teaching they preach 100% correct and perfectly in line with Gods standards. Maybe the parable slave that did not work for long and got the same pay as the grumbling long timers on the job, was an atheist.

....Anyway, that's what I reckon!!!!

Silvertusk wrote:

RickD wrote:Wait a minute...isn't the article supposed to be SATIRE? I mean...it says SATIRE at the end of the article.

I did wonder if anyone noticed that.

See what you started?

The fact that the story is not true and just satire is actually very interesting because that part was quite obviously ignored by those that read it and decided to "take a stand" against that vile religion, the great babylon, the Roman Catholic Church !!

* shoots fireball at married gay couples*

This is the Bash Catholics thread. I am looking for the Bash Pentecostals thread. Can you guys help me find it?

FL

Pope Francis did make statements about non believers possibly going to heaven based on having a good conscience.

This ideology is not heretical. Evry faith and sect can support its claims to getting doctrine 'right'.

PaulSacramento wrote:The fact that the story is not true and just satire is actually very interesting because that part was quite obviously ignored by those that read it and decided to "take a stand" against that vile religion, the great babylon, the Roman Catholic Church !!

* shoots fireball at married gay couples*

Refering to Catholics being the whore is not Catholic bashing. Such comments are the machinations of a mind or faith that thinks they have worked out all prophecy and who is who in the prophetic zoo. All sects think they know better than the others. It is really quite a hoot!

Babylon according to mighty me, was Jerusalem, the whore, and that prediction from Revelation was fullfilled in 70AD as per Mathew ch24.

Mazzy wrote: The bible says Jesus came to save sinners, the lost, the world. I believe that. I believe that some atheists will be saved some way, some how.

Yes. If they repent, believe, and are therefore no longer atheists. Universalism is not scriptural and therefore dangerous. Can God do something that we don't expect? Yes, of course. But we have to follow scripture and the great commission of spreading the gospel. If Universalism is true, then there'd be no need.

Mazzy wrote: Some atheists do a better job at loving their neighbour and giving than some Christians.

Yes, but you can't earn salvation. Though God can certainly use the unbeliever for good works, it doesn't mean that they're regenerated.

Mazzy wrote: The overall point being of course, it is better to safe than sorry! I would advise to err on the side of caution, honour God, pray for faith and if you have faith bigger than a mustard seed, then pray for more faith. But mostly, begg for forgiveness because it is highly unlikely that any faith/church, Christian or not, has got every teaching they preach 100% correct and perfectly in line with Gods standards.

Amen! Justification is by grace through faith, not by having perfect understanding of theology.

Mazzy wrote: Babylon according to mighty me, was Jerusalem, the whore, and that prediction from Revelation was fullfilled in 70AD as per Mathew ch24.

Yep, I think so too (the identity of Mystery Babylon, not the 70AD fulfillment). Although I would say that the whore of Babylon still is Jerusalem and has an extremely significant part to play in the ushering in of the Antichrist as the awaited Jewish Messiah.

Rob wrote:

Mazzy wrote: The bible says Jesus came to save sinners, the lost, the world. I believe that. I believe that some atheists will be saved some way, some how.

Yes. If they repent, believe, and are therefore no longer atheists. Universalism is not scriptural and therefore dangerous. Can God do something that we don't expect? Yes, of course. But we have to follow scripture and the great commission of spreading the gospel. If Universalism is true, then there'd be no need.

Mazzy wrote: Some atheists do a better job at loving their neighbour and giving than some Christians.

Yes, but you can't earn salvation. Though God can certainly use the unbeliever for good works, it doesn't mean that they're regenerated.

Mazzy wrote: The overall point being of course, it is better to safe than sorry! I would advise to err on the side of caution, honour God, pray for faith and if you have faith bigger than a mustard seed, then pray for more faith. But mostly, begg for forgiveness because it is highly unlikely that any faith/church, Christian or not, has got every teaching they preach 100% correct and perfectly in line with Gods standards.

Amen! Justification is by grace through faith, not by having perfect understanding of theology.

Mazzy wrote: Babylon according to mighty me, was Jerusalem, the whore, and that prediction from Revelation was fullfilled in 70AD as per Mathew ch24.

Yep, I think so too. Although I would say that the whore of Babylon still is Jerusalem and has an extremely significant part to play in the ushering in of the Antichrist as the awaited Jewish Messiah.

Hey Rob
Can you elaborate a little on that last part about Jerusalem. Significant in what way?

melanie wrote: Hey Rob
Can you elaborate a little on that last part about Jerusalem. Significant in what way?

Hi melanie.

Sure, I can give it a try. It is my current belief that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon described in Revelation 17. I've read a bunch of works on the identity of the whore, including Dave Hunt's work "A Woman Rides the Beast." That particular work left a bad taste in my mouth and I disagreed with his identification of the Catholic church as the whore. A great work I read with a pretty solid case was Chris White's Mystery Babylon: When Jerusalem Embraces the Antichrist. He wrote a follow up work that released a couple months ago called False Christ: Will the Antichrist Claim to be the Jewish Messiah?. I would highly recommend those to you if you're interested. I think he's got several youtube videos that sum up some of the chapters as well.
Here is a notable one: http://youtu.be/2bN54seOGtA?list=UUJ-8M ... IkSNvCWTnQ

Basically the idea is that the Antichrist will rise to power in the middle east and defeat several enemies that surround Israel. He will then present himself to Jerusalem as the true Messiah and deliverer from their enemies, appearing to fulfill many messianic prophecies. Since the Jews are still looking for their Messiah (even though He already came), they will accept the Antichrist.

Rob wrote:

Mazzy wrote: The bible says Jesus came to save sinners, the lost, the world. I believe that. I believe that some atheists will be saved some way, some how.

Yes. If they repent, believe, and are therefore no longer atheists. Universalism is not scriptural and therefore dangerous. Can God do something that we don't expect? Yes, of course. But we have to follow scripture and the great commission of spreading the gospel. If Universalism is true, then there'd be no need.

Mazzy wrote: Some atheists do a better job at loving their neighbour and giving than some Christians.

Yes, but you can't earn salvation. Though God can certainly use the unbeliever for good works, it doesn't mean that they're regenerated.

Mazzy wrote: The overall point being of course, it is better to safe than sorry! I would advise to err on the side of caution, honour God, pray for faith and if you have faith bigger than a mustard seed, then pray for more faith. But mostly, begg for forgiveness because it is highly unlikely that any faith/church, Christian or not, has got every teaching they preach 100% correct and perfectly in line with Gods standards.

Amen! Justification is by grace through faith, not by having perfect understanding of theology.

Mazzy wrote: Babylon according to mighty me, was Jerusalem, the whore, and that prediction from Revelation was fullfilled in 70AD as per Mathew ch24.

Yep, I think so too (the identity of Mystery Babylon, not the 70AD fulfillment). Although I would say that the whore of Babylon still is Jerusalem and has an extremely significant part to play in the ushering in of the Antichrist as the awaited Jewish Messiah.

Absolutely, we can't 'earn' salvation. I also agree that modern day Jerusalem may be playing a big part in prophecy fulfilment.

Although I do not accept everything pope Francis has to say, I think he is doing the church some good. Many have gone back to church mostly because he has renounced riches and lives in a flat and takes public transport rather than living at the Vatican and being driven around. He walks the walk, not just talking the talk.

The Pope is right to say that atheists may be saved. It is pretty sick to want to believe that those that have had no opportunity to know God or be Christian are going to be exterminated eternally. Most faiths say such people are simply eternal goners. Not only that, some people take some sort of joy out of thinking much of the world will be condemned. I reckon this is a reflection of their soul and what it really looks like. Some faiths preach less glory in heaven for those not of their faith. I agree that those more righteous, or clear of conscience may get prime real estate in heaven or shine with more glory, whatever that may mean to a spiritual being. Jesus came to save the world. If only a minority are saved, then Jesus has failed.

The scriptures go on about lots of gloom and doom. In fact most sciptures are telling us NO ONE can be saved. We all sin, we all have bad thoughts and one sin will condemn us in all. I think a scriptural secret is about hearing and 'seeing' the scriptures that say the world will be saved and Jesus came to save the unrighteous. These scriptures are the ones we need to hold onto that show God is a God of mercy and love, not hate, vindictiveness, unreasonability and not worth worshipping.

Well done Pope Francis!

Rob wrote:

melanie wrote: Hey Rob
Can you elaborate a little on that last part about Jerusalem. Significant in what way?

Hi melanie.

Sure, I can give it a try. It is my current belief that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon described in Revelation 17. I've read a bunch of works on the identity of the whore, including Dave Hunt's work "A Woman Rides the Beast." That particular work left a bad taste in my mouth and I disagreed with his identification of the Catholic church as the whore. A great work I read with a pretty solid case was Chris White's Mystery Babylon: When Jerusalem Embraces the Antichrist. He wrote a follow up work that released a couple months ago called False Christ: Will the Antichrist Claim to be the Jewish Messiah?. I would highly recommend those to you if you're interested. I think he's got several youtube videos that sum up some of the chapters as well.
Here is a notable one: http://youtu.be/2bN54seOGtA?list=UUJ-8M ... IkSNvCWTnQ

Basically the idea is that the Antichrist will rise to power in the middle east and defeat several enemies that surround Israel. He will then present himself to Jerusalem as the true Messiah and deliverer from their enemies, appearing to fulfill many messianic prophecies. Since the Jews are still looking for their Messiah (even though He already came), they will accept the Antichrist.

Yes, I have read about the above ideology. It is interesting. I do believe Revelations whore was Jerusalem. However, I believe the Jews will be grafted back into the tree. God made many promises to Isreal that did not require reciprocation. I think the Jews will eventually accept Christ. Here is why....


"Resnik estimates there are some 20,000 Jews affiliated with Messianic congregations, but he estimates the number of Jewish believers in Jesus could be much higher. The recent Pew Research Center survey, which caused such angst among American Jewish leaders, actually was heartening to Messianic Jews with reporting that 34 percent of respondents believed it was possible to believe in Jesus and be Jewish. Many Jews understood the finding to reflect the view that beliefs have no bearing on a person’s Jewish status."

http://www.timesofisrael.com/has-the-ti ... anic-jews/#!

It is certainly noteable that the Jewish Temple although rebuilt many times in the past has not been rebuilt since 70AD. It is also interesting that the Dome of the Rock lays above the old Temple site akin to a capstone. As we know, the Dome of the Rock is under the control of Islam that do not accept Christ as the Son of God.

Like lightning strikes and coming from 'the East' we now have the Islamic State sweeping over the land.

Rob wrote:

melanie wrote: Hey Rob
Can you elaborate a little on that last part about Jerusalem. Significant in what way?

Hi melanie.

Sure, I can give it a try. It is my current belief that Jerusalem is Mystery Babylon described in Revelation 17. I've read a bunch of works on the identity of the whore, including Dave Hunt's work "A Woman Rides the Beast." That particular work left a bad taste in my mouth and I disagreed with his identification of the Catholic church as the whore. A great work I read with a pretty solid case was Chris White's Mystery Babylon: When Jerusalem Embraces the Antichrist. He wrote a follow up work that released a couple months ago called False Christ: Will the Antichrist Claim to be the Jewish Messiah?. I would highly recommend those to you if you're interested. I think he's got several youtube videos that sum up some of the chapters as well.
Here is a notable one: http://youtu.be/2bN54seOGtA?list=UUJ-8M ... IkSNvCWTnQ

Basically the idea is that the Antichrist will rise to power in the middle east and defeat several enemies that surround Israel. He will then present himself to Jerusalem as the true Messiah and deliverer from their enemies, appearing to fulfill many messianic prophecies. Since the Jews are still looking for their Messiah (even though He already came), they will accept the Antichrist.

Thanks Rob
Very interesting. I already agree with you, I just wanted your take on it.
I find it distressing that so many Christians are aligning themselves with what I believe to be the antichrist system setting itself up in Jerusalem. Christians have largely paid for the artefacts to be made that will be used in the new temple, they have the plans already drawn up and ready to go. Christians in America have bred what they believe to be a pure red heifer for the purpose of using its ash in the cleansing and rituals. High priests are being trained as we speak and being taught how to properly sacrifice animals. And christians are supporting it all in the name of prophecy. I find it quite interesting that the same Christians that openly admit to supporting this in the name of prophecy, mock the very idea that there is a system being set up to bring in a one world government. Ohh conspiracy, tin foil hat wearing loonies. But ironically it is also prophecy. Do they think that this system is going to spring up outta no-where, you cannot in one breath speak of prophecy being fulfilled in one aspect then not rationally determine that hence other prohecies must also be brought to light. Satan is the master of deceit. The anti-christ is not going to come with a couple of Devils horns riding on the tail of Islam. Satan is not that stupid. He will counterfeit Christ. He will come at first as a peace keeper, a man that appears righteous, even godly. He will as scripture tells us, deceive even the elect if that were possible. His biggest adversaries are the Christians. His agenda is to deceive and fool as many christians as possible. He hates all that is good and all that follow Jesus, he will do everything he can to deceive Gods chosen. Leading them to set up the very system to house him.
Christians know that animal sacrifices are not needed. Jesus ended the need for it and his blood was spilt once and for all. But yet they are turning a blind eye. I read an article about a christian who is supporting financialy the re-building of the temple in the name of seeng this as fulfilling prophecy and he said even though as a Christian I know Jesus has already paid the price, the sacrifices will just be a reminder to us of our sins. Umm no!!
Christians are aligning themselves in the millions with this zionist agenda within it to rebuild the temple in some misplaced agenda to usher in the coming of Jesus. Well we know that the temple must be rebuilt before Jesus comes so we will support the Temple being rebuilt even though the very religious system that plans to do so, reject the very notion of our saviour, their Talmud says some horrifying things about Him, they killed Him when He was first here, but we will support them anyway because it's prophecy. What else in the coming times will they also turn a blind too?
The antichrist will reveal himself as their awaited messiah and I fear that christians will be caught up in the deceipt.
This has nothing at all to do with me having anything against the Jewish people. The most thought-provoking things I have read regarding this has come from Jewish people themselves. It must be recognised that many Jewish people are NOT descendants from Abraham, the are descendants from people who converted to Judiasm centuries ago. Does that mean that they are not really Jews of course not, but they are not as claimed by many by right of the land, descendants from Abraham.
I am not against the Jews at all. I am against satan and his elite puppeteers to use their name and religion to deceive Christians and establish their One world Government, with a one world religion, and a one world currency system as prophesied in the bible. Mazzy is correct, many Jews will accept Jesus. There is a large group of Jews called 'true Torah Jews' although they do not recognise Jesus I believe they will. They are the Jews opposing zionism, protesting and rallying in their thousands against Zionism. They have a web page dedicated to exposing the zionist. Their mantra 'not in our name'!
There belief being that zionism has nothing at all to do with Judiasm, they are a political, nationalistic, war mongering elite group of people using the Jewish Religion to support their agenda. They are peaceful, and love God dearly. They do not follow the talmud, hence the name true 'Torah' Jews. They will not be decieved. God will not forsake the Jewish people. The descendants of Abraham and any Jew otherwise who accept our Lord Jesus. God will open their eyes, they will never accept the anti-christ, falsely claiming to be their messiah, for they oppose the whole system to begin with.

I donated to getting the blue prints written for the third temple (they crowd funded more than enough). The way I see it, if we can help move prophecy along, Christ will come all the faster
At least it will feel like it...