Evidence for God from Science

MIDDLE management totally sucks! Because then people under you only see you as the tool of often-heartless upper management.

Philip wrote:MIDDLE management totally sucks! Because then people under you only see you as the tool of often-heartless upper management.

In some cases, yes. But my immediate manager(middle management) may be the best manager I've ever had. He's the kind of manager that you want to work with.

Just wait until you become management.
Then you'll start wondering whether you are looking like a clown.

Ain't gonna happen at this place. Ive been a manager before. These two in upper management are the most incompetent buffoons I've ever seen. Completely out of touch with people that work under them.

Another example on how out of touch the two of them are: we have an employee. Let's call her Martha. Buffoon 2 kept telling Martha how happy she's going to be with the offer letter she's going to get. "I think you'll be really pleased with your new job", he says. Well, Martha showed me her offer letter. The position she was offered is a more difficult job than she has now, for less pay. Then I overheard buffoon 1 say to buffoon 2, "I think Martha will be happy with her job offer. She's getting a raise."

No you idiot! If you took the time to get a clue about the people you see every day, you'd realize that you just recommended her for a pay cut and more work.

Rick, did they give you a better offer yet?

Philip wrote:Rick, did they give you a better offer yet?

Not an offer that I want. They offered me a position that has been open before. I didn't want it then, and I don't want it now.

They told me they are going to rectify the situation. But I'm not holding my breath. Talk is cheap here.

Rick, hope something clicks soon. So strange, these economic days. I can remember thinking about 8 years ago that we'd never see a truly lengthy and devastating recessionary time, as we were all so used to plentiful jobs and salaries to come roaring back after 15 months or so of recessions. And yet, here we are. And the official unemployment figures are complete BS - as soon as people run out of unemployment, "magically," they are no longer an unemployment statistic. It's so bad that I don't know how young people can ever afford to marry and have a house, etc.

As for myself, I'm thinking of radically changing horses - to do my own thing, but in a different way and industry. We'll see, gotta do my due dilligence.

I'll definitely pray for your situation, as it has to be stressful.

Philip,

I'm constantly told how good of a job I'm doing. The government manager who oversees our company, wants me specifically, to do a certain job that needs to get done correctly. There's basically zero room for error. And since I do it right he wants me. It's a responsibility that I have no problem doing. But, I'm not going to have the same responsibility without the pay. If they don't fix my situation by January 1, they will have to find someone else to do it. We'll see if they really mean what they say about how good of a job I do. I've found in the almost 5 years I've been here, that their talk is cheap. They tell you what they want you to hear, but backing up their talk is another story.

As much as I like what I do, and love the employees I work with, I'm prepared to accept the consequences of this. Even if it means finding a new job. I'm just tired of the way they treat valuable employees. I've never seen anything like this before.

You might talk to someone about whistle blower laws, if you feel like this is tied to you voicing opposition in the past.
My sister works for the gubment and she documented problems and has basically taken them to task twice where they were left helpless and asking, "OK, what are your demands?" Each time she said, I love my job and want to be able to perform it without idiots messing with me.

You might ever respond to their letter with a letter. If you have those concerns, you might articulate those concerns stating you believe you are being shown the door by being offered a job they know you will not take. Tough call.

jlay wrote:You might talk to someone about whistle blower laws, if you feel like this is tied to you voicing opposition in the past.
My sister works for the gubment and she documented problems and has basically taken them to task twice where they were left helpless and asking, "OK, what are your demands?" Each time she said, I love my job and want to be able to perform it without idiots messing with me.

You might ever respond to their letter with a letter. If you have those concerns, you might articulate those concerns stating you believe you are being shown the door by being offered a job they know you will not take. Tough call.

After adding up all the pieces, I don't think they intentionally offered me the lesser job. I think it was a legitimate mistake on their part. Albeit, a mistake that wouldn't have been made if they paid attention to, and cared about the people who worked for them.

My immediate manager has been trying to get a better position for me. He even offered me a better paying position that was open because someone turned down his offer letter to go back to school. My manager actually offered me the position before it went out to the rest of the company. But it's a position I've never been interested in, so I declined. I think I'm going to let this whole thing play itself out. I've accepted the position they offered me. The money isn't really an issue for now, so I can just see how it goes. The problem is that with this lesser paying position, comes less responsibility. They're just not going to get the same work out of me that they've been getting. I've been the #1 person when it comes to training people. That isn't going to happen anymore. When I was promoted before, I was given a responsibility that was very important to our company and the govt. I won't be doing that anymore.

We'll see...

RickD wrote:

jlay wrote:You might talk to someone about whistle blower laws, if you feel like this is tied to you voicing opposition in the past.
My sister works for the gubment and she documented problems and has basically taken them to task twice where they were left helpless and asking, "OK, what are your demands?" Each time she said, I love my job and want to be able to perform it without idiots messing with me.

You might ever respond to their letter with a letter. If you have those concerns, you might articulate those concerns stating you believe you are being shown the door by being offered a job they know you will not take. Tough call.

After adding up all the pieces, I don't think they intentionally offered me the lesser job. I think it was a legitimate mistake on their part. Albeit, a mistake that wouldn't have been made if they paid attention to, and cared about the people who worked for them.

My immediate manager has been trying to get a better position for me. He even offered me a better paying position that was open because someone turned down his offer letter to go back to school. My manager actually offered me the position before it went out to the rest of the company. But it's a position I've never been interested in, so I declined. I think I'm going to let this whole thing play itself out. I've accepted the position they offered me. The money isn't really an issue for now, so I can just see how it goes. The problem is that with this lesser paying position, comes less responsibility. They're just not going to get the same work out of me that they've been getting. I've been the #1 person when it comes to training people. That isn't going to happen anymore. When I was promoted before, I was given a responsibility that was very important to our company and the govt. I won't be doing that anymore.

We'll see...

Often you need to step sideways to move up.
Once you are pinned into a position and known, then your significance is lost and taken for granted.

If it were me, I'd be applying for jobs elsewhere while working. Jobs you want and are higher position.

Managers will spin whatever and often its an ego trip to play their staff. It becomes apart of the "work" game. Not all, but...
You can tell these kind of managers, especially if you're like their 2IC, by the way they tell you one thing and then their staff member apart of their team another.
If they're playing others in your team, then they're playing you too.

Don't buy into the "innocent mistake". There isn't a mistake. It would have been discussed by your manager with those responsible. It's his sell to you.
Of course, I'm reading much into in from here in Australia -- but I'm sure it's much the same there too.
Interesting that a job was thrown your way that you weren't interested it to smoothen your settling in with "lesser responsibility".
Unless you have strong boundaries, then expect to fulfill much the same work you're doing now.

Good luck Rick! I've seen this many times over.

Don't buy into the "innocent mistake". There isn't a mistake. It would have been discussed by your manager with those responsible. It's his sell to you.
Of course, I'm reading much into in from here in Australia -- but I'm sure it's much the same there too.
Interesting that a job was thrown your way that you weren't interested it to smoothen your settling in with "lesser responsibility".
Unless you have strong boundaries, then expect to fulfill much the same work you're doing now.

I didn't mean to imply it was an innocent mistake that I got offered the job I did. But the manager who put me in the new position is completely oblivious to most of the people who work under him. Ive been there almost 5 years, and up until this whole mess happened, he's never called me by my name. I work 100 feet away from him every day, and he didn't wen know my name for over 4 years. The guy is just out of touch with us peons. And my manager, who offered me the job I didn't want, ha only been my manager for the last 6 months, so he would have no idea I wouldn't be interested.

And as far as doing the same work for less pay, a lead I work with already suggested that they'd make me do it. I said I would be fired before I did what I was doing before, for less pay now.


And I'm sticking to it. They take advantage of too many people, and I'm not dealing with it anymore.

I am ready to be fired if it comes to that.

You sound like you know what you're doing Rick.
It's kind of interesting, hearing similar management stories elsewhere.

Really, what you are experiencing, is one reason I basically walked out and went back to my business.
Thankfully, the second time around it's treated me well... better now than when I was employed.
And I've been able to spend much time with kids. BUT, also high stress.

Kurieuo wrote:You sound like you know what you're doing Rick.
It's kind of interesting, hearing similar management stories elsewhere.

Really, what you are experiencing, is one reason I basically walked out and went back to my business.
Thankfully, the second time around it's treated me well... better now than when I was employed.
And I've been able to spend much time with kids. BUT, also high stress.

If you don't mind my asking, where is the stress coming from? I ask because I'm starting to get stressed here for the first time.

What Rick describes is my own experience of the better of two decades in the corporate world. Constantly having people inappropriately pressuring you, trying to subtly intimidate you, to drain every drop of your time and energy due to their bad planning or motives - it just goes on and on. It's why I am determined to now do my own business from home - I don't need to get rich, just to make a decent living. I'll take my own clients' pressures over corporate crapola ANY day! My biggest challenge might be that my wife works from home as well .

Philip wrote:What Rick describes is my own experience of the better of two decades in the corporate world. Constantly having people inappropriately pressuring you, trying to subtly intimidate you, to drain every drop of your time and energy due to their bad planning or motives - it just goes on and on. It's why I am determined to now do my own business from home - I don't need to get rich, just to make a decent living. I'll take my own clients' pressures over corporate crapola ANY day! My biggest challenge might be that my wife works from home as well .

When you say that your wife works from home, you mean in the kitchen, right?

When you say that your wife works from home, you mean in the kitchen, right?

Actually, yes. I claimed the study as my office (long before), she has another room to make into an office, but she prefers to work while seeing the sunshine and the woods from the kitchen table. Only problem is, if I have my study door open, I can directly see her, and I like to be alone when I'm working .