Evidence for God from Science

DRDS, it is not YOUR job, nor do you have the ability to save people. ONLY God does. God IS love. But most refuse to love Him back. It's a matter of the will - those so willing and those who NEVER will. In the end, God will give them precisely what it is that they ultimately want and thus choose. ANY man that WANTS to believe, God will help to believe. He will do all necessary short of coercion.

Right now, you just need to rest in the Lord. All of this worldly noise. anger, indifference, these difficult people, all of the 24/7 media stuff - TURN IT OFF! ALL of it! What you see as uncontrolled chaos, GOD is in precise control of. He allows what He knows will bring about HIS plans for us - and those plans are perfect! We must trust this even if we can't see it. Even if everyone around us is rejecting Him, look UP and not all around. I went through the worst time of my life - thought I might even die - was VERY ill for about 18 months, significantly ill far longer. And during the first period of all of that, I thought God had abandoned me, and I had the most helpless, destructive and hopeless thoughts. I also felt abandoned by everyone else. EVERYTHING seemed pointless and useless. But in my brokenness, I finally had to let go and truly and ONLY trust Him. That is when I first and most powerfully experienced His presence and love - and most importantly, that HE, ALONE, is more than enough. HE is all that we truly need. He is fully capable of sustaining us. But if we focus on the din and chaos around us, or that we see on the news, all we do is deepen our anxiety. Ask HIM how to pray, for what you need, for peace of mind. Sometimes, hitting a wall is precisely what it takes, because God wants to break our dependencies upon all of the STUFF that we look to other than Him. And for many people, God knows that hitting a wall is the only thing that will truly get their attention, that will refocus them upon their need for Him. But, meanwhile, it's okay to be angry, to have fear. God understands - He wants to heal such things.

DRDS wrote:Thank you B.W. at least you are helpful and actually care not only about me but about the souls of others. As for some of the others on here, they appear to be a bunch of Fred Phelps groupies who want to see everyone in hell and they want heaven to be void of as many people as possible so they can have it all for themselves like a bunch of greedy Texas oil billionaires. And...... it's my 600th post, happy 600th post for me! (I guess it feels GREAT to be selfish! *doesn't it neo?)

I want to see you in hell... just kidding. But thanks for the insult. Just goes on to show that you are still holding on to it and not letting go what worries you.

You insult me and yet I am not angry at all. I have learnt a little to be at peace, you will not take my peace away from me. It is because I know why you said what you said. I understand it because I have been in your shoes. It comes when you understand that everyone is broken somewhere and is not better nor worse than yourself. We all need grace, at this moment you do.

Seriously, listen to what Rick and Phillip said. This isn't about what others want, you seem to oversee your anxiety levels and skipped that part. Those levels are not NORMAL. I repeat. Unless you completely trust God, that he loves you and cares for you, you will never be at peace. This is a burden you are carrying which is crippling you. Let go of it. Just hand it to Christ and stop worrying.

You think you love people? Have you ever died for someone? Christ did, he loves the people you worry about so much, much better than you do. And he knows what you don't. So don't fall for the grandpa complex that you need to save every child under your roof. That is God's concern, you do what you can do and leave the rest in God's hands and be at peace. There is nothing better than to be at peace with God, in yourself.

As I said before I used to struggle through what you seem to be struggling through and it was devastating because I could never trust God and I always had insecurities about the whole thing. I finally learned to let go somethings to God.

You found my post offensive but I'll leave you with this:
Proverbs 27:6 "Wounds from a sincere friend are better than many kisses from an enemy."

I don't know dude, I'm just depressed that I'll suffer such a loss eternally if I don't see all my friends and loved ones in heaven. I mean, what's going to make it even worse is you know we will see many of the "lucky families" who were born in the right time period under the right set of circumstances who just so happen to have all or nearly all of their family in heaven and then you will many like me who will have next to none and just wonder what will be done to fill that void and not only keep me from feeling the emptiness and despair of not seeing my lost friends and loved ones but to deal with the jealousy or the possibility of jealousy of seeing the families who all made it in gloat about their success and blessings.

I mean, how would you feel if in heaven you for instance was really close to your dad but your dad just so happened to not know the Lord or you thought he did but he just didn't have enough faith or just didn't maintain enough moral purity to make it in and you watch other sons and daughters with their saved earthly father doing typical father/son/daughter things like going fishing, playing sports or showing love and affection, and you think that's never going to happen to me because my father whom I loved so much is in hell.

I'm just so afraid that will be me one day. And the only things I've read so far that offer me any hope of relief from such a scenario is that one verse in Revelation about God wiping away tears. That and I've also read some good stuff from author Randy Alcorn regarding these scenarios in his popular book on heaven, but other than that I don't know.

I may help slightly but many times like today, it's just not enough. Between that and just seeing how the world is going downhill sharply with the gay marriage thing and everything else that's going to follow suit it just really hurts me inside and I don't really have many people to turn to to even talk about this stuff so that's just where i"m at, and I hope I can find some more effective ways to help the lost but if they don't want any help than why even bother anymore?

DRDS wrote:I don't know dude, I'm just depressed that I'll suffer such a loss eternally if I don't see all my friends and loved ones in heaven. I mean, what's going to make it even worse is you know we will see many of the "lucky families" who were born in the right time period under the right set of circumstances who just so happen to have all or nearly all of their family in heaven and then you will many like me who will have next to none and just wonder what will be done to fill that void and not only keep me from feeling the emptiness and despair of not seeing my lost friends and loved ones but to deal with the jealousy or the possibility of jealousy of seeing the families who all made it in gloat about their success and blessings.

I mean, how would you feel if in heaven you for instance was really close to your dad but your dad just so happened to not know the Lord or you thought he did but he just didn't have enough faith or just didn't maintain enough moral purity to make it in and you watch other sons and daughters with their saved earthly father doing typical father/son/daughter things like going fishing, playing sports or showing love and affection, and you think that's never going to happen to me because my father whom I loved so much is in hell.

I'm just so afraid that will be me one day. And the only things I've read so far that offer me any hope of relief from such a scenario is that one verse in Revelation about God wiping away tears. That and I've also read some good stuff from author Randy Alcorn regarding these scenarios in his popular book on heaven, but other than that I don't know.

I may help slightly but many times like today, it's just not enough. Between that and just seeing how the world is going downhill sharply with the gay marriage thing and everything else that's going to follow suit it just really hurts me inside and I don't really have many people to turn to to even talk about this stuff so that's just where i"m at, and I hope I can find some more effective ways to help the lost but if they don't want any help than why even bother anymore?

I am sorry DRDS, I feel you. I use to think exactly like this. The thing is and this is what I learnt, that in heaven there is no such thing as father/son/daughter/spouse relations. The gospels tell us that it wouldn't be so. There will be no jealousy like this because there will be nothing to be jealous of. Everyone there will be humble and everyone will be on his own and all we would have is God and all eternity. No one would feel for earthly relationships or the need to have love relationships, for we all brothers and sisters in Christ would be in God's love, fulfilled and content.

We may feel sorry for a loved one who didn't make it but we would also come to the understanding that it was their own decision and as sorry and sad as it may sound no force in entire creation can change or go against that, including our father in heaven. Those who do not want to be with God can be without God.

I think your main worry is that you will be left alone but that is utterly false, for we will have God with us, each and everyone will have God with us and we with him and you will have a new family of saved souls, the same as you, it will be the church, those who are one in Christ. The relationships won't be like the ones on earth but God's love will sustain all.

And that is why you need to trust God and that he is merciful and I bet we will see a few surprises when we get there, we may see many whom we didn't expect and we may not see those who we thought would be there. At the end those who put their faith in Christ, have eternal life rest assured of that. Our sins, no matter how bad they are, can't bloat that out.

We all sin, saved and lost folks alike, some acts are small and some acts seem big, but in Christ all of these are trivial and the same. When we put our trust in Christ his atonement covers us regardless of how big or small our sin may seem. The problem is not, being in sin, the problem is not being in Christ. And that is why we have assurance of an eternal life with God.

There is no one on earth who could give you a guarantee that someone will or won't be in heaven. Only Christ promises that and he promises that he will make everything alright. And I know it may seem a lot to chew on but I think you have a very wrong view of heaven and that is affecting your faith.

I personally find that 99% of the stories of people who visited heaven or talk about detailed things in heaven quite wrong and nonsense. There may be someone who really went there and saw things but its simply impossible to know. So read it all you like but don't fashion and model your faith on someone's experience. It may be true or it may be a fancy hallucination.

Trust God only and his word, let him take over your worries.

DRDS wrote:Well from what I've seen anymore it just doesn't pay to be nice and helpful anymore. The world is ending and most of the human race is going to hell and there is nothing I can do about it. I"m going to lose most of my family and loved ones to satan and heaven for me will probably be a boring, dull, tasteless,bitter, full of despair kind of experience. I'm going to be surrounded by a small group of hateful, dull, boring amish people who hate me and each other and everything and with the luck I have God will probably have the same personality as well. I'm sure it's still slightly better than hell, but if I had my druthers I would ask God to just annihilate me for good and just be dead like in a atheist type of universe where you just go to a state of nonexistence and stay like that forever.

How this came about for me was confronted with the need to rest in the Lord, that he does know what he is doing, and learn to flow in him to those he sends me too.

I used to be afraid to walk outside, go to shopping malls, being around people because all I wanted to do was shake each person and warn them about the place I had seen. They were headed to hell! I worked and worked hard at maintaining my salvation and witnessed and prayed without power for several years after my experience. I worried a lot about others and your concerns mirrored mine all those years ago.

Then, after praying for the Holy Spirit to empower me, which he did and still does, the Lord confronted me with my fear of seeing others, even own family heading to hell. Can't explain what happened in easy words other than having the Lord lovingly, strongly and firmly telling me - who is in control - me or him? Just go to those He sends me too, I do not know what he does about all whom I see, He is busy in all life in ways we do not know, Take up His yoke and learn of him and rest in his care. Go where and to whom he sends me because he has others who he sends to others I cannot reach. he knows what He is doing and I do not.

I surrendered that day way back in the early 1980's and found rest/peace I never known. It has never left me since and now I can go to shopping malls and busy crowded events and know that he is wiser and far greater than me. In fact, I learned that day, that he does not even need me! That was liberating and this liberation some may find strange - what - God doesn't need me? Think about it - when one realizes this, then they are ready to walk yoked with God to do his will where and when He flows us too. Why, because we stop getting in the way.

Does this mean I still do not get discouraged and dishearten? No it does not. I see folks in churches oblivious to the persecution coming. I see the apathy and coldness and stupidity too. However, I have a peace that surpasses my own understanding that God is wiser than I am on this matter and can handle it. In that, I can flow where and to whoever he sends me as I know that he speaks to all in his own ways to them I see around me, and also that I am not the mouth piece that God will use because I am not sent to all I see - others are sent instead in ways I do not know because God does have a team. Tag you are on it... What I keep discerning from the Lord for you is to come to a place of surrender and rest in His sovereignty just as I had to do long ago. Let that rest and peace with His Knowledge and wisdom be released upon you in Jesus Name - Amen.

Blessings
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DRDS, for what its worth, you are one of my favourite posters here. You are kind, compassionate and you care so much. What you feel matters, what you pist does make a difference and I wish there were more Christians that feel greif over those that wont be saved.
Evil, and satan, have to exist for good to have any meaning, there has to be a choice to appreciate.
I would rather burn in hell for eternity than be one of those selfish, uncaring, holier than thou folk you meet, who do it all in the name of our Lord.

Your passion and strength of feeling is what makes you special, embrace it.

Keep praying, someone needs to.

If I had to describe God in one word, it would be love. And you have that in spades.

Long Black Train
https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=SZtwxc423jg

There is one other element that I forgot o mention, DRDS and that is...

Intercession

What you describe is also what several others report as well. It appears to be sweeping this Country in a few folks scattered here and there who for reason's unknown other than that the Lord has placed His own burden of intercession upon them for their geographic location. This begins as a sense of uneasiness and discouragement about the current spiritual condition of the area which one lives. There is an anger as well mixed with frustration. This is a call to intercessory prayer few ever know unless experienced.

During the great revivals such as 1949 Hebrides Revival, way back further to Finney or Wesley, the Welsh revival etc and etc. You will read of such folks who literally travailed with great anguish in prayer, wrestled, wailed, over the spiritual condition of an area. Their prayers were violent in a Godly sense, and intense. That maybe happening to you, DRDS. You think?

During such travail, these folks prayed over themselves as they saw themselves as guilty as the rest and then launched out in prayers that would shock most sensitive ears calling forth the judgement of God to stay His hand of judgment and come forth in power. They called forth, prayed that others would come into their area and shake it up. Sometimes it took months or years or even days after the Holy Spirit led prayer time ended for something to happened and the right person or persons were drawn there. While doing so, several of the people involved mentioned they came to a place of surrender and peace with God. They prayed a release of some sort upon folks all as the Holy Spirit directed, not them.

Let me say as the bible says, judgment comes first to the house of God...

God sends warnings and stirs the inner person of particular folks to pray his perfect will that such can be spared and that such can wake up because bad things are coming down. In other words, God is waking up His church - waking the people up. So that maybe what you are experiencing explaining your turmoil as well. I know a few other folks who are likewise feeling this as myself did a a few days ago.

This is where surrender and rest comes in that I spoke earlier about. With this, the Lord directs your praying, speech, intent and not you. Your spirit connects to the Holy Spirit and prays in ways that shake and get things done. I am not sure you understand this and maybe a bit new to this. I mentioned the importance of flowing as the Lord leads you. So I suggest you you seek Jesus on letting you have a bit of quiet time alone with no distractions and let out the prayers bound inside you. Shout, scream, travail, however it comes out. There will be an intenseness to it, It is not about getting mad at folks, revenge or yelling at God, it is about going after the things mentioned in Eph 6:12 that control. People are not the enemy, they are in bondage and frighten as any one else is. Including you and even my own self can be.

I mentioned Isaiah 61:1-4 as a reality before to you and others on this forum too. This nation and others are going down the wrong path, churches are weak, passive, and into building their own kingdoms. Everyone wants a revival but when it comes guess who will try to stop it because it is not according to their likes? There is a lot to pray for so, DRDS, tag you are it and welcome to the club...

Remember this kind of prayer is not about personal revenge or anger but praying drops of blood in one''s sweat, to borrow the phrase as the Lord leads. You maybe one of the folks Jesus is stirring up for a time like this. Have you thought of this? Note 2 Co 10:3-6...

Now for other following this, I suggest you dig deep and do research on how past revivals began by folks praying in a manner that is basically foreign to most and come to your own conclusions. Never use this kind of prayer to channel anger for anger's sake...

Blessings
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@DRDs, I'm often stuck at what to say to my mother-in-law whose husband was clearly not Christian.
She's Catholic and prays for his soul every week. My wife has somehow come to terms with the fact he wasn't saved.
I've not probed much about how she deals with the thought.
It is horrible. That should not be diminished.

Have you taken a read of CS Lewis' The Great Divorce?
If not, I recommend it. There's not anything in particular, but just that it touches on this subject so would be an interesting read for you I'm sure.

B.W. reminds us of something very important, that in the midst of the world's sin and chaos, we sometimes forget that "he is wiser and far greater than me." The world He has created and the events He orchestrates and controls within, ALL work together for the end result that He desires - and one of those things is that He desires is that, ultimately, ALL so willing to come to the Lord, to call on His name, WILL do so - and He'll HELP them to do so IF they want to, and IF they'll take as much as baby steps of obedience, in response to His enlightening/prompting/drawing - even if initially only out of curiosity or sometimes out of great misery. Of course, all of those things God wants and does for everyone can be rejected. He won't force reciprocal love!

I randomly ran into a guy yesterday, at a coffee shop, whom I knew of his story but had never met him. This guy is a pastor, whom, after 8 years here, is going back up north to pastor a church. He's so dedicated, that he's been flying about a 2,000-mile (round trip) to preach on Sundays before he permanently moves back up there. He and his wife were a bit older to be having their first child. Not long after birth, they discovered something terribly wrong, that the child had a very rare disease, and over months and months, they watched her die. Their world was shaken to its core. They had been through so much. And then, upon getting the call to return to pastor up North, his wife suddenly conceived again. Their minds raced with great fear that whatever genetics might have been at play with the death of their first child, would return to take another. And so, instead of what should have been a period of joyous anticipation, was one of ongoing dread. The second child appears quite healthy - with absolutely no indications of anything to worry about. But the pastor told me that's not what calmed him down. He said he has learned that a sense of peace cannot be maintained - certainly not in this often-threatening reality - UNLESS one keeps their focus on the Lord, in constant worship. He stressed, it's when we take our focus off of God, don't keep Him constantly in our minds and pursuing Him, when we start looking all around instead of "UP," to Him, that is when the anxiety and fears begin to overwhelm. He said, remember Peter walking on water - when did he begin to sink? Yep!

I especially think anymore these days with the way people are, prayer is the best weapon in our arsenal as believers because most lost people these days you can't have a conversation with about anything let alone about Christ, Christianity or the Bible. It's like Christ has become THE lightning rod of hate and THE hot button topic that angers most people who don't know Him.

Just look at anyone who is far left, gay, or an atheist and you will see what I mean. I don't even have to go any further I'm fully aware that most of you here know. And that's why for the most part I've given up "talking" with such people a long time ago because again you CAN'T have conversations with these types anymore.

They won't give you the time of day and they are always ready with an excuse to anything you have to say. And sadly many of my loved ones, friends, co-workers and the various women that I've met in my life are under these categories of people you can't reach or can't have conversations with. Many of them currently hate and despise me because of my faith, my moral stances and so on and they avoid me every chance they get so I know those people I can't reach out to because they won't give me the time of day.

Almost all the people I know and hang out with are atheist, gay, left, agnostic, humanist (mainly, really), and the list goes on. I don't have but one Christian friend as the majority of the ones I come across are nominal, or cultural. That being said, I love them all! Everyone I know adds spice to my life as a unique expression of Elohim. They like being around me because I truly enjoy engaging each of their spirits and they know it. And I enjoy being around them because I always engage their core selves and get to see them for who they really are. Which makes me love each one deeper. I know where they are headed if they don't move from their path. But I know YHWH loves them more than I love them. I know from what He says and what He reveals about Himself He wants all to come to Him and fights to be heard throughout everyones lives. So I know He's got it.

Prayer confused me for the longest time. I never understood the point of it. What do I have to do with anything? What does it matter what I want or say or ask? I already know He wants the best for everyone and works to bring it about. Isn't it insulting to have some dude He created say 'hey! save 'so and so'' when He's already thinking 'Duh...' or 'Pipe down you squeaky little thing, I've been doing this before I thought of you'. I've heard many responses to the whys of praying, all accurate but only pieces of the puzzle. The point of prayer is to develop a personal relationship with Elohim. It's to get in tune with His will and why you are alive. It's to learn who He made you to be to fulfill part of His purpose throughout your life. And remember, this mortal life is the part where we grow up. We're born into this womb of existence to grow up as children of Elohim. We don't actually 'grow up' until after we're dead or raptured. Anyways, just be careful with prayer. I've seen it become and idol, heavily in the catholic church. It can be another dangerous trap to take your attention of YHWH and growing in a relationship with your El-Shaddai. Prayer isn't a laundry list, it's not even trying to lead the conversation of prayer. It's talking (walking) with YHWH through the Holy Spirit. If I get caught up in myself and my thoughts when I'm praying, I'm really just talking to myself...

Oh, that leads me up to the people in my life I love. It's interesting how the first church is similar to the last. The first church prepared those who would be after them after they were gone. When it boils down to it, that is the function of the first church. And I think that is the function of this last church scattered throughout the world. We are to prepare people for their last chance. Think of all the tribulation martyrs there will be.. Tons! It is our job to prepare the world for what is coming, and Who. Everyone I know knows Jesus Christ is my Elohim, Prince of Peace. I have conversations and debates with many of them as YHWH is my focus in life, and they know that too. I tell them what is coming. But not all at once or right up front. I first let the relationship build up so they can see the words that are coming out of my mouth aren't from a crazy person and are sincere, careful and intended for revelation. That's why it's good to be walking with YHWH daily (ceaseless prayer, don't prefer that term though) so you can ride His waves. Which is pretty fun. His yoke really is easy. You love Him and live loyally to Him, keep going back to Him when you've sinned to say sorry, ride the waves of life and relax by getting over yourself so you can rest in His will.

I keep getting distracted.. The point is, if you love the people in your life, tell them what's coming. Show them prophecy being fulfilled on an weekly basis. Tell them you aren't asking them to change; but when the tribulation happens choose your loyalty to Jesus Christ, start believing on Him and die for Him for you will have to to prove your love and belief in Him (price of tribulation saints). And then you gain eternity. We need to boldly proclaim Jesus Christ is coming back in our lifetime and our message is the fulfillment of the age of grace. Preach the last chance this world will get, and how to obtain salvation unto eternity.