Evidence for God from Science

acb:
We are just going to have to agree to disagree.I cannot believe you doubt Catholics combine grace and works and I really think it is you that are not being honest.My conscience is clear before God and man Catholics teach grace and works for justification and you know they do.Stop denying it.It is you not being honest by trying tomake it seem there is no difference between Catholocism and Protestants when there is differenes and you know it.Why does it bother you so much that Catholics teac grace and works for justfication? It does botherme,Why you?I menn you can continue to try to deny Catholics teach grace and works but the truth will find its way out.

I take it you don't take the time to read anything I give you ?

I'l tell you what acb, you find me a Catholic definition that says that Catholics teac grace and works for justfication? and I'll relent.
Since I already gave you this...

https://carm.org/roman-catholic-view-justification
justification is a divine act where God declares the sinner to be innocent of his sins. It is a legal action in that God declares the sinner righteous--as though he has satisfied the Law of God. This justification is based entirely on the sacrifice of Christ by His shed blood: " . . . having now been justified by His blood . . . ," (Rom. 5:9).1 Justification is a gift of grace (Rom. 3:24, Titus 3:7) that comes through faith (Rom. 3:28, 5:1).2 Christians receive Jesus (John 1:12) and put their faith-filled trust in what Jesus did on the cross (Isaiah 53:12, 1 Pet. 2:24) and in so doing are justified by God. The Bible states that justification is not by works (Rom. 3:20, 28; 4:5,Eph. 2:8-9) because our righteous deeds are filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6). Therefore, we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.Those who are justified are saved and salvation is a free gift (Rom. 6:23)--something we cannot earn (Eph. 2:1-10).

Everything you have said in this last post is wrong and your conscience being clear means nothing other than you are misinformed and ok with that. Honesty is tempered by intellect, if there is no intellect (in a specific subject) then all the info I posted to enlighten was useless to you. You weren't going to learn anyway, but simply stay on your track of complicit confusion. I'm beginning to feel like the "Little Sisters" when the gov't told them they knew the Sister's religious faith better than they do....

EssentialSacrifice wrote:

acb:
We are just going to have to agree to disagree.I cannot believe you doubt Catholics combine grace and works and I really think it is you that are not being honest.My conscience is clear before God and man Catholics teach grace and works for justification and you know they do.Stop denying it.It is you not being honest by trying tomake it seem there is no difference between Catholocism and Protestants when there is differenes and you know it.Why does it bother you so much that Catholics teac grace and works for justfication? It does botherme,Why you?I menn you can continue to try to deny Catholics teach grace and works but the truth will find its way out.

I take it you don't take the time to read anything I give you ?

I'l tell you what acb, you find me a Catholic definition that says that Catholics teac grace and works for justfication? and I'll relent.
Since I already gave you this...

https://carm.org/roman-catholic-view-justification
justification is a divine act where God declares the sinner to be innocent of his sins. It is a legal action in that God declares the sinner righteous--as though he has satisfied the Law of God. This justification is based entirely on the sacrifice of Christ by His shed blood: " . . . having now been justified by His blood . . . ," (Rom. 5:9).1 Justification is a gift of grace (Rom. 3:24, Titus 3:7) that comes through faith (Rom. 3:28, 5:1).2 Christians receive Jesus (John 1:12) and put their faith-filled trust in what Jesus did on the cross (Isaiah 53:12, 1 Pet. 2:24) and in so doing are justified by God. The Bible states that justification is not by works (Rom. 3:20, 28; 4:5,Eph. 2:8-9) because our righteous deeds are filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6). Therefore, we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.Those who are justified are saved and salvation is a free gift (Rom. 6:23)--something we cannot earn (Eph. 2:1-10).

Everything you have said in this last post is wrong and your conscience being clear means nothing other than you are misinformed and ok with that. Honesty is tempered by intellect, if there is no intellect (in a specific subject) then all the info I posted to enlighten was useless to you. You weren't going to learn anyway, but simply stay on your track of complicit confusion. I'm beginning to feel like the "Little Sisters" when the gov't told them they knew the Sister's religious faith better than they do....

Then tell us the difference in Catholicism and what Protestants teach and believe then.

Then tell us the difference in Catholicism and what Protestants teach and believe then.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_capr.htm

I didn't actually read all this... just sort of skimmed though it... looks to have all the salient points you ask for... google really is easy

ps; can't really confirm the linked Protestant view, so if the link offers something you disagree with you'll need to take it up with them. I truly don't understand your faith as well as my own.

ACB wrote:
Then tell us the difference in Catholicism and what Protestants teach and believe then.

This is a loaded question. And despite EssentialSacrifice's link, it's impossible to say what all Protestants teach and believe.

As ES's link shows, general beliefs are all you are going to get.

RickD wrote:

ACB wrote:
Then tell us the difference in Catholicism and what Protestants teach and believe then.

This is a loaded question. And despite EssentialSacrifice's link, it's impossible to say what all Protestants teach and believe.

As ES's link shows, general beliefs are all you are going to get.

There are no difference then between Catholicism and what most Protestants teach and believe?I realize this is not saying all Catholics believe all the same way or that Protestants believe all the same way
but majority.It has been a long time when I was looking into the differences in Christian denominations but I do remember an article that pretty much broke it all down between the different denominations and when it came to Catholicism it said they teach grace and works.Now I don't get into link wars too much because a person can find a link to back up most anything they are saying when they contradict each other where it then comes down to which article a person believes so I go on evidence and if you examine Catholicism church services compared to most Protestant church services Catholics show more works than Protestants do.Actions speak louder than words do.

abelcainsbrother wrote:

RickD wrote:

ACB wrote:
Then tell us the difference in Catholicism and what Protestants teach and believe then.

This is a loaded question. And despite EssentialSacrifice's link, it's impossible to say what all Protestants teach and believe.

As ES's link shows, general beliefs are all you are going to get.

There are no difference then between Catholicism and what most Protestants teach and believe?I realize this is not saying all Catholics believe all the same way or that Protestants believe all the same way
but majority.It has been a long time when I was looking into the differences in Christian denominations but I do remember an article that pretty much broke it all down between the different denominations and when it came to Catholicism it said they teach grace and works.Now I don't get into link wars too much because a person can find a link to back up most anything they are saying when they contradict each other where it then comes down to which article a person believes so I go on evidence and if you examine Catholicism church services compared to most Protestant church services Catholics show more works than Protestants do.Actions speak louder than words do.

ACB,

I'm not saying there's no difference between what Catholics and Protestants believe. What I'm saying, is that there's no consensus on what Protestants believe. Catholics final say is what their church says. Protestants don't have a pope or church who is the final say, so Protestants disagree more, about doctrine.

acb, answer some questions I have ...

do you consider yourself a Christian ?
do you consider yourself, your faith, a work in progress ?
do you do things in your life to be a better Christian ?



the faithful Christian is not just desiring to be righteous, but is actively working toward it.

do you agree with this statement?

EssentialSacrifice wrote:acb, answer some questions I have ...

do you consider yourself a Christian ?
do you consider yourself, your faith, a work in progress ?
do you do things in your life to be a better Christian ?



the faithful Christian is not just desiring to be righteous, but is actively working toward it.

do you agree with this statement?

Ooh...ooh...ooh!!! Pick me, pick me!!!

Can I answer this?

Can I answer this?

<sigh> yes, yes the little chubby yellow kid with the skinny black arms can answer / play along too...

ES wrote:

do you consider yourself a Christian ?
do you consider yourself, your faith, a work in progress ?
do you do things in your life to be a better Christian ?

Yes
Yes
And yes!!!!

the faithful Christian is not just desiring to be righteous, but is actively working toward it.

do you agree with this statement?

I know you want ACB to answer this, so as much as it's killing me, I'll wait until he answers.

---->

EssentialSacrifice wrote:acb, answer some questions I have ...

do you consider yourself a Christian ?
do you consider yourself, your faith, a work in progress ?
do you do things in your life to be a better Christian ?



the faithful Christian is not just desiring to be righteous, but is actively working toward it.

do you agree with this statement?

Yes,Yes,Yes.I see us as growing as a Christian rather than working toward righteousness

Yes,Yes,Yes.

I see us as growing as a Christian rather than working toward righteousness

this is fine, one man's working towards is another man's growing as .... here's the point ...

We're Christian ...
We're imperfect, daily works in progress ...
We do things that make us better Christians...

This last part, doing things to make ourselves better Christians, in my world of Catholicism is what we call "works". What ever it is you do to make yourself a better Christian to gain a close relationship with God is "works".

Works comes last. First you become Christian, after time you realize how hard it is to stay a Christian because of our imperfections, and lastly, we do something about our Christian growth. We pray, we visit those in prison, we make meals for the homeless, we help old ladies across the street ... etc.
we do the things we feel are necessary and valuable to build that stronger relationship with God and every bit of that "what we do" to attain that is known as "works."

Always remembering, Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God's grace completely unmerited by works--that one is saved. ... nothing involving works, right from the Catechism, which is the final word in my Catholic tradition.

Salvation -- what is a person placing their faith In. That Jesus dying on the cross / shedding His blood for our sins and rising from the dead / being enough to take care of our sins.

Any thing We are trying to do in addition To the cross of Christ for our salvation -- is works based salvation -- isn't salvation at all.

A person who places their faith in the denomination they belong to is heading in the wrong direction. Being Baptist, Catholic, Jehovah Witness, etc doesn't save a person.

Being baptized does Not save a person. Neither does taking part in Communion save a person. They are Both 'good things' that a born-again believer Should be doing, though. The one is visibly identifying the person with Christ. The other is done in remembrance of Me until I return.