Evidence for God from Science

1over137 wrote:

Nessa wrote:http://www.thepoachedegg.net/the-poache ... ign=buffer

As article states there are many pros for the debates. Debates you select wisely.
So I agree.

I will take that as a positive thing

I agree with the article.I like to debate on-line when I can and not just here but I already know how hard it is to change minds,so I don't go into trying to change minds.I just go into with the best information and evidence I have and try to make valid points but I know how hard it is to change minds so I look at it as planting seeds that can grow.Atheists have this motto " The internet,the place where religion comes to die." And so I like to point out just how wrong they are.

RickD wrote:I disagree!

To agree to disagree that is the question to be...

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If you think public debate is about changing the opinion of the person you're debating, then I feel you're kind of missing the true benefit.
The majority of people reading is more than any one person being debated.

By and large debates are about the audience. Second to that, you do get pushed with your position and beliefs against tougher, more reasonable opponents (as should they). You may not change your main position, but certainly if you're honest with yourself and see a fair point, you'll try to make your beliefs more logically coherent. And lastly, at least for me, they're not about changing the position of the other person but perhaps moving them closer to you in their beliefs.

Also, I have seen people change their positions due to public debate and but online discussions.
So it seems those who say "debates are pointless" or some such is just taking up more of a popularist statement.
Perhaps such just prefer hearing their opinion without having to justify their position?

Because many people do change their beliefs and benefit from online debate and rational discussions.
So that needs squaring with anyone who believes there is no benefit.

Take several people on this board who have changed their position from YEC to Day-Age for example. One oddly went the other way.
If it wasn't for a place like this, then I certainly wouldn't be as equipped and learned as I am with Christianity or as a Christian.
I know others here who have been re-secured in their Christian beliefs. One privately I know who was pretty much out the door.
HappyFlappy had a change of mind, especially in dialogue with Jac.

Flew changed his position away from Atheism in large thanks to Intelligent Design arguments and Habermaus.
And if we take the master debater, William Lane Craig. I'd like anyone to say that he hasn't changed minds.
Many credit him with strengthening their Christian faith and or helping them see the light.
Love him or hate him, Craig has had a major lasting impact upon Evangelicial rationalism.

Any change isn't seen in the heat of a debate in an instant.
But, under closer investigation, and it's been my experience, over time people do change their beliefs.
And quite drastically so. While having debates and dialogue with people is an important area of focus, it evidently isn't the only area.
Especially if you're female. It is obvious to me that many more men need the rational dialogue, women more gush over nice sounding things.
So many more men need their minds fulfilled, whereas many more women will likely need their hearts filled.

Finally, it's not about vanity, but often I dare say more about hobby.
Some people like collecting stamps, others like putting their mind to the grind. Yet, the latter get insulted?
Look at Facebook people, and you'll see a big difference between vanity comments and intellectual debates about this or that issue.

Sometimes when no one responds I feel like that I've just thrown a spanner into the works.

I need both: heart and mind fulfilled.

And I agree about the audience. Many times we continue in the discussion because of the audience.

And, to let others know, Nessa has left. Her account is inactive now.

Sorry for the slow response K I was too busy gushing over nice sounding things like love and rainbows and kittens and cup cakes

I think that debates can be really worthwhile, I have learnt a great deal from being here.
I think this forum does take a different tone most of the time in the threads compared to a lot of the online debates I have seen.
The question the article was asking is 'are online debates worth it'
The answer was yes and no, with the writer still engaging in online debating but realising that sometimes it's best to avoid.
I would agree with that.
I keep away from some threads on here because I see the potential where it could lead me. Sometimes it leads me there anyway. That is not a reflection on anybody else but myself.
There have been plenty of threads on here that have been heated but really informative and beneficial and there have been others that just get out of hand. It is usually when wires get crossed and things get personal. I think we have all been guilty of it.
It is about being mindful of the purpose of the discussion. Its no different in 'real life'. It's easy for a debate to cross over into a fight. Sometimes the lines get very blurred as to when that cross over occurs but when it does the purpose goes out the window, it's not about the subject matter, gaining insight or the audience it becomes a pissing contest with neither side really listening to one another because we're to busy focusing on our next argument.
It is very self serving.
Without the visual cues that we have when debating with someone in person we can cross the line when we cannot see the impact of our words.
In a perfect debate scenario it never becomes personal or rude or condescending. It is two sides or sometimes more putting across different positions to try and come to a better understanding of our own positon and the position of others. It remains informative and progressive. That progression can lead to altering our position which is a great thing.
Knowledge can only ever be a positive thing.

But cause we are human and arrogant and too prideful and because through Internet debating cues can be missed then it opens up a real possibility for debates to fall into messy territory that neither party would have ever intended in the first place. It just happens.
It's wise to be mindful of it.
Keep the purpose in mind.
Do some self correcting if we need too to bring the debate back on track.
Be responsible when and how we choose to debate.

I don't know about anybody else but being a pretty argumenative person, I am always reminding myself of these things, in 'real life too''.

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." Joseph Joubert, Pensees

Re: gushing and being all heart.

Don't take me wrong there. I know there's another side.
Women really have this need to talk also, and to an extent that as a male I'm mentally no match for!

Ohh K, don't be so modest.
Word count on your posts can match it with the best of us ladies

I'll take that as a compliment.

Kurieuo wrote:If you think public debate is about changing the opinion of the person you're debating, then I feel you're kind of missing the true benefit.
The majority of people reading is more than any one person being debated.

By and large debates are about the audience. Second to that, you do get pushed with your position and beliefs against tougher, more reasonable opponents (as should they). You may not change your main position, but certainly if you're honest with yourself and see a fair point, you'll try to make your beliefs more logically coherent. And lastly, at least for me, they're not about changing the position of the other person but perhaps moving them closer to you in their beliefs.

Also, I have seen people change their positions due to public debate and but online discussions.
So it seems those who say "debates are pointless" or some such is just taking up more of a popularist statement.
Perhaps such just prefer hearing their opinion without having to justify their position?

Because many people do change their beliefs and benefit from online debate and rational discussions.
So that needs squaring with anyone who believes there is no benefit.

Take several people on this board who have changed their position from YEC to Day-Age for example. One oddly went the other way.
If it wasn't for a place like this, then I certainly wouldn't be as equipped and learned as I am with Christianity or as a Christian.
I know others here who have been re-secured in their Christian beliefs. One privately I know who was pretty much out the door.
HappyFlappy had a change of mind, especially in dialogue with Jac.

Flew changed his position away from Atheism in large thanks to Intelligent Design arguments and Habermaus.
And if we take the master debater, William Lane Craig. I'd like anyone to say that he hasn't changed minds.
Many credit him with strengthening their Christian faith and or helping them see the light.
Love him or hate him, Craig has had a major lasting impact upon Evangelicial rationalism.

Any change isn't seen in the heat of a debate in an instant.
But, under closer investigation, and it's been my experience, over time people do change their beliefs.
And quite drastically so. While having debates and dialogue with people is an important area of focus, it evidently isn't the only area.
Especially if you're female. It is obvious to me that many more men need the rational dialogue, women more gush over nice sounding things.
So many more men need their minds fulfilled, whereas many more women will likely need their hearts filled.

Finally, it's not about vanity, but often I dare say more about hobby.
Some people like collecting stamps, others like putting their mind to the grind. Yet, the latter get insulted?
Look at Facebook people, and you'll see a big difference between vanity comments and intellectual debates about this or that issue.

Who is saying debates are pointless?

And who is insulting them?

Arguments do not win people to Christ. Christ does. Though God can and does use arguments as a powerful tool to serve his purposes.

If someone can argue you into something then it logically follows that someone else can argue you out.

Craig - apart from Christ - can accomplish nothing..zero..zip...nil

And flew changed his mind thanks to God ...lets get that straight.

Man gives man way too much credit

Yay, Nessa is back!!!!

RickD wrote:Yay, Nessa is back!!!!

Thats cos you're tricky ricky who lures me back with pms i have to be activated to see

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:Yay, Nessa is back!!!!

Thats cos you're tricky ricky who lures me back with pms i have to be activated to see

Whatever the reason, I'm glad you're here.

Absolutely, Nessa, just wouldn't be the same without ya! I tried to PM you but I couldn't see how to. But you're back, that's all that matters!