Evidence for God from Science

Storyteller wrote:Indeed they are and I am blessed because of it.

Everyone on here has helped me heal.

Story, and others, knowing what to say as well as what not to say to unbelievers is often difficult to know. Espescially with family, how are we to influence them to seek Jesus if they constantly avoid any spiritual conversations we might initiate? I would HIGHLY recommend you get a copy of Norman Geisler's "Conversational Evangelism." It really is packed with ideas of how to build relationships, how to assess and discern the likely spiritual blockages our unbelieving friends or family might have, and how to pose non-threatening but insightful questions that can help them to begin thinking about key spiritual issues in ways they have not previously done. It's the best book on how to engage unbelievers with pre-evangelism I've ever seen. Basically, instead of TELLING others what they should do or how to think, or posing questions they make perceive as threatening, the book teaches you how to encourage others to begin looking at things differently, and in ways they might not have previously - so that they may hopefully become receptive to hearing the Gospel message - whether this might come from you or another Christian, at some future point.

We may be the one who gets to eventually share the Gospel with someone, OR, we may just be one in a chain of Christians put in a present unbeliever's/future believer's path - with each playing an important role in being used by God to bring someone to salvation. But I can't stress what an important book this is! I'm getting ready to lead a second small group in a study of this book.

patrick wrote:I get the feeling this passage is saying something that I'm missing:

9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
10 “For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’;
11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

I *think* this passage is trying to say there's a sort of natural order in our respect for the act of creation, on the one hand giving unto parents what is their due and giving unto God what is His, but the only thing I can come up with is distinguishing the physical (parents) from the spiritual (God) and I'm not sure what that would really look like in practice.

Sorry if this is just me being a bit obtuse.

What is being spoken here is a tradition of Corban.

Best way that I can put it would be the use of twisting Moses law in order to break it lawfully. Corban was a way one could hide money so that they do not have to take care of the elderly parents by dedicating as a loan of sorts to the temple. So on paper, one gives Corban to the temple is giving to God and thus negates parental obligations because it is now God's money in the temple. Then, after the death of the parents, the money goes back to the owners with a small fee of course charged by the religious order of that era in time.

AS you can see, this was a really premeditated diabolical scheme to justify dodging honoring one's parents.

So how would this look today? Not sure there really is an equivalent to it in our modern world that even fits.
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Philip wrote:Story, and others, knowing what to say as well as what not to say to unbelievers is often difficult to know. Espescially with family, how are we to influence them to seek Jesus if they constantly avoid any spiritual conversations we might initiate? I would HIGHLY recommend you get a copy of Norman Geisler's "Conversational Evangelism." It really is packed with ideas of how to build relationships, how to assess and discern the likely spiritual blockages our unbelieving friends or family might have, and how to pose non-threatening but insightful questions that can help them to begin thinking about key spiritual issues in ways they have not previously done. It's the best book on how to engage unbelievers with pre-evangelism I've ever seen. Basically, instead of TELLING others what they should do or how to think, or posing questions they make perceive as threatening, the book teaches you how to encourage others to begin looking at things differently, and in ways they might not have previously - so that they may hopefully become receptive to hearing the Gospel message - whether this might come from you or another Christian, at some future point.

We may be the one who gets to eventually share the Gospel with someone, OR, we may just be one in a chain of Christians put in a present unbeliever's/future believer's path - with each playing an important role in being used by God to bring someone to salvation. But I can't stress what an important book this is! I'm getting ready to lead a second small group in a study of this book.

I will certainly look into it Philip but in all honesty I think there is little I can do. There are other factors involved, my parents have had absolutely nothing to do with me for years, they havent seen their beautiful, wonderful granddaughter for about three years now.
I live in hope that one day we can be reconciled and our door is always open but I cannot, and will not, force them.

Which means that I treasure the family that I do have. I am learning not to make the mistakes my parents made and am concentrating on building a strong, loving family for us all.

Story: I will certainly look into it Philip but in all honesty I think there is little I can do.

Story, I realize how heart breaking this situation must be for you. It's a hurt that just seems endless, hopeless and cruel. But the book is filled with insights into being a witness for the truth of Christ, as it shows how to impact how people think about things, how to help them to discover and reconsider how they look at things impact their spiritual life. I do hope you'll get it. As far as being a witness for Christ, it's probably the most important book I've read in many years.

I will certainly read the book. As to whether it can help bridge the rift, well never say never but I can't really hold on to that hope. My parents disapprove of my husband, frown upon our lifestyle and have abandoned their grandchild as they did their child.
It is a deep, painful wound that is only just starting to heal. I prayed and pray to God about this all the time. I have offered up all my pain and grief to Him yet still, even as I write this, the tears stream down my cheeks. I feel loved and secure in the love of God yet I still yearn for a hug and love from my mum. Maybe that's part of the reason I am so drawn to Catholicism, because of Mary.
I know, somewhere, there is a lesson, something to learn from all this, I think perhaps it's that it is possible to break a cycle of neglect.

I will never lose hope that somehow someone will reach my parents but I really don't think it will be me.

Storyteller wrote: I will never lose hope that somehow someone will reach my parents but I really don't think it will be me.

Do not. And maybe it will be you.

Well stranger things have happened and anything is possible so who knows?

Unfortunately my dad is in pretty poor health and they are both in their mid/late seventies so my biggest fear is that time is running out. All I can do is trust God and keep praying.

Storyteller wrote:Well stranger things have happened and anything is possible so who knows?

Unfortunately my dad is in pretty poor health and they are both in their mid/late seventies so my biggest fear is that time is running out. All I can do is trust God and keep praying.

My wife's father had a heart attack and was in the hospital awaiting surgery in the late 1990's. So my wife and I told him about Jesus in blunt terms and he became born again. After recovery, he became a strong christian man and remain so before he passed away in 2004 and is now in Heaven fishing (he liked to fish).

Maybe, when one is flat out in need and ill, is when they will listen...

Please keep that in mind
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B. W. wrote:

Storyteller wrote:Well stranger things have happened and anything is possible so who knows?

Unfortunately my dad is in pretty poor health and they are both in their mid/late seventies so my biggest fear is that time is running out. All I can do is trust God and keep praying.

My wife's father had a heart attack and was in the hospital awaiting surgery in the late 1990's. So my wife and I told him about Jesus in blunt terms and he became born again. After recovery, he became a strong christian man and remain so before he passed away in 2004 and is now in Heaven fishing (he liked to fish).

Maybe, when one is flat out in need and ill, is when they will listen...

Please keep that in mind
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Your post, am crying Bryan

May that happen

Ian McCormack talks about the issue of someone diverting attention among his loved ones vs attention to God. Called a "divided heart" in this particular speech. The "divided heart" starts at the 17:00 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5xb0xlIjpo

Philip wrote:Story, and others, knowing what to say as well as what not to say to unbelievers is often difficult to know. Espescially with family, how are we to influence them to seek Jesus if they constantly avoid any spiritual conversations we might initiate? I would HIGHLY recommend you get a copy of Norman Geisler's "Conversational Evangelism." It really is packed with ideas of how to build relationships, how to assess and discern the likely spiritual blockages our unbelieving friends or family might have, and how to pose non-threatening but insightful questions that can help them to begin thinking about key spiritual issues in ways they have not previously done. It's the best book on how to engage unbelievers with pre-evangelism I've ever seen. Basically, instead of TELLING others what they should do or how to think, or posing questions they make perceive as threatening, the book teaches you how to encourage others to begin looking at things differently, and in ways they might not have previously - so that they may hopefully become receptive to hearing the Gospel message - whether this might come from you or another Christian, at some future point.

We may be the one who gets to eventually share the Gospel with someone, OR, we may just be one in a chain of Christians put in a present unbeliever's/future believer's path - with each playing an important role in being used by God to bring someone to salvation. But I can't stress what an important book this is! I'm getting ready to lead a second small group in a study of this book.

Would it be possible to do a 'small group' here on thread?
You'd mentioned this book a while back. I'm going to look it up.

I've been feeling like somewhat of a 'lost puppy' when it comes to relationships. The divorce that happened as a result of our grandson's death -- our older daughter and her husband -- has torn up our family pretty bad. Divorce isn't supposed to happen to believers -- but no one seems to escape it these days. Even my counselor experienced it Years ago. Probably makes him a Better counselor Now, cause he appreciates the need to preserve marriages -- build Up -- developing a closer relationship to God. I find it easier to talk to a visible person than an invisible one.

This is the thread I was looking for regarding a small group -- was on another thread looking for This one.

I don't see how that is a problem, either.
It is pretty hard to explain it to those who are not Christians or in doubt, though.