Oivay !
All right then.
First off, you need to stop saying that I view the work of God as not trustworthy.
Just stop.
I never said this Paul ...never. I questioned (numerous ?) your ability to accept this :
If you believe the bible is the word of God then it should not matter if it is God Himself or the ones He has chosen and utilizes for salvation, who speak of confession...
1 John 1:9 ... Acts 19:18 ... James 5:16 ... Proverbs 28:13 ... 2 Peter 3:9 ... to name a few.
These are the verses I spoke to, of confession, as accepted biblical discourse, by the inspired writers of the written word, which, when asked, declined their veracity, you prefered:
Note that not one of those passages shows CHRIST saying for us to confess our sins to anyone other than Him.
James is the off one and again, it is James stating it not Christ BUT James is also stating confession to ONE ANOTHER and NOT to a designated person.
So...
These verses do mention confession by name( as thy did when I first posted) and are a pretty good defense for the continued practice, whether you wish to participate or not. Do you find these verses trustworthy or not, you haven't yet said ...
I have a Masters In Theological studies and I hold the written word of God at the highest level, second only the the living Word of God, Our Lord.
Congratulations ... i have the highest respect for the initiative and drive to complete.
I admire your faith in the Roman Catholic Traditions,
... thanks, but you don't need to say this Paul, what you've already said:
Yes, in MY world it is different because in "my world", Christ rules, not men... has me a tad skeptical.
I
would also be careful of the ad hominem attacks (
...everyone knows you shouldn't act all "big wig" and stuff, haughty and better than you are attitude...
), they are obvious and don't work here ands you should practise what you preach.
I would take the advice of ad hominem attacks except not a line ... a letter, not one syllable was directed at you or your person. My quoted statement is in response to your:
3) in regards to public mass, Christ was very critical of it and the public showings/reasons why people go, to the point of saying that people should pray at home, in private.
Yes Paul, if you're Christian, pretty much ...everyone knows you shouldn't act all "big wig" and stuff, haughty and have a "better than you are" attitude... not exactly Christ like. But you digressed, the topic was public mass, and you said;
3) in regards to public mass, Christ was very critical of it
I don't think He was, but will bow to verses you can provide showing Christ critical of the public mass ... are these verses available ?
Now, as for his:
Confess to one another or to a priest of the lineage of Christ ... your choice, but you're confessing to another human either way... not God per se. The priestly way is approved John 20:23 ... Matthew 18:18 ...
That you choose to view these passage as, somehow, referring to confession even though the term confession is not present, is fine, that is your choice.
I chose these verses as confirmation in the validation of God being present whenever one of the Apostles, who were breathed upon by Jesus and received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit would hear another's confession of sin to either be forgiven or not, through the mercy of God. John 20:23 Do you forgive the sins of someone before you know what that sin is ? and when that person tells you of that sin, is looking for forgiveness, wouldn't you call that person's admission of guilt(sin) confession ? You've just confessed yourself before God and man.
BUT you should not take something that must be interpreted as an implication as if it was explicitly stated.
John 6:53-57 ... John 6:51 ... John 6:58 IMO, you should practice what you preach
John 20:23 is the act of Christ giving the Apostles the HS and authority to forgive sins, no statement of confession is made.
so the Apostles were given with the authority to forgive sins they didn't know about ? Simply walked in to town and forgave all their sins ? Of course not, they'd speak with the people of the community and those who wished to unburden themselves were given the opportunity, and what would that unburdening be called ? ... it would be their confession of sins ? you really don't need a statement if you have an obvious conclusion.
*as a side here ... if you did believe, as i do that when you confess, imagine what it would have been like to actually speak to one who was actually breathed upon, received the Holy Spirit just as we read, just as we believe ... being forgiven by one who was there, touched by those who had the indwelling of God in their midst before them for our benefit today and for as long as it will take before His next arrival..
Matthew 18:18 is this:
Discipline and Prayer
15
“If your brother sins[k], go and [l]show him his fault [m]in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
so what we're saying here is if your brother sins, recognizes he has sinned because of your help you have won your brother by showing then forgiving his sin, which he has confessed as a mistake. You see, you don't need the word confession outright to simply deduce what transpired, the very real, very biblical beginnings of personal confession.
17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church;
so what we're saying here is if the sinner won't listen to you or 2 or 3 more, take him to the church. By church, do you suppose he meant "the body of Christ" ... the congregation ? or do you suppose the sinner was brought before the elders, rabbi, priest ... It makes little sense to pollute the congregation with everyone's private confessional so the "church" is almost certainly represented by an individual of great importance within the church community. Either way, the church has the final say on imposing a gentile or tax collector status on the unrepentant sinner. The church was the final authority. IMO this verse, certainly confirms the church's participation and strong hand on the Sacrament of Penance.
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