"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
Link fail!Storyteller wrote:Found this...
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com ... +the+bible
on kindle so nit sure if link will work but the conclusion in particular makes sense to me.
I got a free iphone! allegedly.RickD wrote:Link fail!Storyteller wrote:Found this...
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com ... +the+bible
on kindle so nit sure if link will work but the conclusion in particular makes sense to me.
All I got was an ad to sponsor some kid in India that probably would never get my donation!
Thanks Annette!
Annette,
Is this the link?
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com ... the-bible/
And I don't think that's trivial either. The verse about God loving Jacob, and hating Esau, is talking about how God chose Jacob and the nation of Israel.Neo wrote:
The trivial point in that post by JT was:
even though some theologians say it was the edomites who God hated, or God just liked him less than Jacob.
http://soniclight.org/constable/notes.htmIf God's love of Jacob consists in his choosing Jacob to be the' seed' who would inherit the blessings promised to Abraham, then God's hatred of Esau is best understood to refer to God's decision not to bestow this privilege on Esau. It might best be translated 'reject.' "Love' and 'hate' are not there, then, emotions that God feels but actions that he carries out.
RickD wrote:
And Storyteller raised a great point. If God is unchanging(immutable) then He does love Satan.
And that doesn't do anything to change God being just.
I can't see God loving all the angels He created, then not loving some of them, because they sinned. That would mean God's love is subject to His creation's actions. And we can see the problem with that.
Neo,Neo wrote:
And this isn't a really good point by ST, as it does not change God's immutability. The love that we talk about in Christian theology is indeed by Christ alone. And that love is afforded to, as we know it, human beings only. It is not afforded to angels for Christ didn't die for angels. It is not afforded to bacteria either or viruses. God is not bound by "I must love all" condition. Therefore to assume is to have a false notion of God and therefore the wrong idea that by doing the opposite God must stay immutable. That is not how it works.
Red Herring. Nobody is saying Christ died to redeem oysters. I'm saying just because God's love for angels isn't made manifest through Christ, that doesn't mean He doesn't love angels.Neo wrote:
Does God love the oyster in the sea so much that he gave his only begotten son, that whichever shall believe in him will have an everlasting pearl in it?
I guess we all know the answer to that one.
I agree with the conclusion too:Storyteller wrote:I got a free iphone! allegedly.RickD wrote:Link fail!Storyteller wrote:Found this...
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com ... +the+bible
on kindle so nit sure if link will work but the conclusion in particular makes sense to me.
All I got was an ad to sponsor some kid in India that probably would never get my donation!
Thanks Annette!
Annette,
Is this the link?
http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com ... the-bible/
Yeah, thats the one, thanks rick
To say that God loved Satan before he fell and became the epitome of evil, but God doesn't love him now, is saying that God's love is contingent upon how His creatures act. And THAT is what goes against God's immutability. Who God is, is not contingent upon anything. Otherwise, He's not God!Conclusion
One of the greatest attributes of God is that He is a God of love (1 John 4:8). He loves us and He so loved the world that Jesus came to die to redeem us (John 3:16). Why would God feel any less than love for His angelic creatures since God is the perfect fulfillment of love? God loves humanity and so how could He not also love His angels…even the fallen ones like Satan and the demons. God hates the sin but loves the sinner so He must also still love Satan and remembers Satan before his fall. A person is loved not by what they do but because they are His creatures. God is love, therefore God loves His creatures and this includes those who have and will reject His Son, Jesus Christ. It is too late for Satan to repent. God knows His ultimate fate (Revelation 20) but there is still time for you to receive eternal life by repenting, confessing your sins and putting your trust in the Savior. That is my prayer for you today because this is the day of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2). Tomorrow may be too late. For you who are reading this and are not born again, it is not too late like it is for Satan (Revelation 20:10). Why not put your trust in the only One Who can save you? That is Jesus Christ (Acts 16:30-31). If not, you can read about your own eternal destiny and it is not a pretty picture (Revelation 20:12-15).
I wonder if Gary Habermas is a card holding member of the Westboro Baptist Church?Philip wrote:I notice that as for Hosea 9:15, not all commentators separate the sin from the sinner in what God hated in this passage. Gary Habermas doesn't, and he's widely respected in evangelical circles.
"All their evil is at Gilgal;
Indeed, I came to hate THEM there!
Because of the wickedness of their deeds
I will drive them out of My house!
I will love THEM no more;
All their princes are rebels."
Rick, it would be far more helpful if we could bring theological illumination to this passage - Habermas is someone to be respected - so, that's really an unnecessary and malicious comment to make. And the people in the passage did terribly wicked things, of whom Scripture says God previously had loved. Of course, He's addressing them as a nation as well as for individual acts.I wonder if Gary Habermas is a card holding member of the Westboro Baptist Church?
Philip,Philip wrote:Rick, it would be far more helpful if we could bring theological illumination to this passage - Habermas is someone to be respected - so, that's really an unnecessary and malicious comment to make. And the people in the passage did terribly wicked things, of whom Scripture says God previously had loved. Of course, He's addressing them as a nation as well as for individual acts.I wonder if Gary Habermas is a card holding member of the Westboro Baptist Church?
I agree. Hold on...I'll be right back. I'm going to get Jac.Philip wrote:Rick, I don't disagree with your analysis. But for the sake of such passages, they need illumination. This is one of those issues where some verses can SEEM to contradict others. I've not studied these passages over this issue of supposed hate of God. Thus my responding to previous comments with this. There are places in Scripture where God's actions SEEM inconsistent with His love - which, when they are posted in forum conversations, are great opportunities to explain to those searching for answers. So, it would be great to see someone who can shed better light one this subject/the indicated passages. I find a lot of the online commentaries - like on BibleStudyTools, to be written and communicated rather poorly.
Christ didn`t die for non human life, He didn`t need to as they have no souls, they do not sin, only we do. As for the angels and Satan, again Christ didn`t die for them as they were already in Heaven but some rejected God and Heaven, doesn`t mean God doesn`t/didn`t love them, it just means they are already judged.neo-x wrote:I think you are stretching john 3:16. There could be sone exceptions. Take antichrist and false prophet, did Christ die for them too?
You are having a distorted view of God's love. That love is only available through Christ, extended to them whom it is afforded to...in Him. There is no obligation for God to love everyone in Christ, meaning non-human life - angels, plant life, bacteria, animals etc. Plus, the exceptions like Anti-christ and false prophet.
The problem you need to address is, did Christ die for this non-human life? If he loves them indeed, then why not?