RickD wrote:theophilus wrote:melanie wrote:The fact that majority of people opposed to helping the refugees are Christian is such a shame, and leaves me baffled, bewildered and pretty deflated.
I feel the same way. The Bible says we must not conform to the world but have our minds renewed, but many Christians fail to do this.
I think you're equating "not allowing possible Muslim extremists into the country", with "opposed to helping".
Many people think the govt should give money to help, as well as using discernment in regards to who, if anybody, is allowed into the country.
It's really an emotional argument that some people make, when they claim that people who want some kind of protection against possible terrorists entering the country, is the same as being opposed to helping refugees.
It's sad that people can't see the difference.
You know what is sad, that the difference was never the point of this discussion.
Let's make a very clear distinction here, nowhere in this thread was any notion of countries not being able to discern who is granted refugee status.
This thread was NEVER about safeguards to ensure radical Islam extremist did not enter into foreign countries. If anyone would like to start such a thread then we can discuss that topic but let's call a spade a spade and discuss what is being addressesed in this thread.
That is not allowing Syrian refugees into Australia, America and and Europe.
If there is any confusion let me reiterate some of the sentiments put forward thus far;
"THEY come in and use the freedoms in the west against itself"
Let's be clear that the THEY being referred to was refugees, let's continue....
"THEIR goal is to convert the world to Islam"
"They are the leopard in the bible, THEY blend in and camouflage". This was in reference to Muslims not specifically directed at extremists.
"There needs to be laws in place so that Muslims will not come here". Probably don't need to elaborate but obvious that this argument has not been based on Islamic extremists but rather on Muslim Syrian refugees as a whole without discernment.
"Muslims do not deserve the freedom that the US has"
"They are enemies that desire us dead"
"This invasion of Islam through emigration of refugees is playing on the weakness and sympathy" Noted Again this is referring to Islam refugees as a whole not intended to be a statement made in any reference to safeguarding against terrorists.
"I'm not against any other religion coming to America only Islam"
"It's is THEIR goal to bring everyone under Sharia Law".
"No THEY don't have the right to practice Sharia Law in America, ANYWHERE!"
I am all good to debate about this but let's be real and address the relevent topic.
Syrian refugees.
Let's not create straw men.
This is about people in this instance Christians not wanting to help Syrian refugees with asylum status.
You cannot accuse someone of using emotional arguments and then do the exact same thing, under the pretence that opposed to helping is not the same as trying to protect against Muslim extremists.
This whole argument is about refugees. And people opposed to helping.
They haven't even tried to whitewash it.
Okay now that hopefully we are back on track and using as Philip said our brains and discernment we can discuss the issue which is the threat of Syrian refugees.
It would be pretty stupid and well not at all practiced by governments to just let anybody wander into our borders. There are actually processes in place where Governments actually choose who they allow to enter. Profound.
That screening process is actually taking place right now in Austraila.
So, don't mean to harp on but nobody is suggesting that we open up out borders and let and any willy nilly or Tom, **** or Harry enter.
What is being suggested is that no legitimate Syrian refugee be allowed to enter based purely on the fact they are Muslim. I'm not sure if anyone cares that nearly half of these refugees are children!
On a side note I have been very interested in Middle Eastern politics and history for some time. I have read a great deal and whilst I am certainly no expert I am well aware of the political, historical and religious issues facing this region.
It should be noted that Sharia Law encompasses every aspect of the Muslim Faith. It is the moral, legal and religious code followed by Mulsims. There is not a practising Musilm that does not adhere to Sharia Law. It is the embodiment of their faith down to their prayer rituals. Muslims that have coexisted and been a functioning part of our societies already practice Sharia Law, but how it is interpreted is very convoluted and dependent upon several factors. There are 5 schools of jurisprudence in modern Islam broken down into Sunni and Shiite factions even within these Muslim theologians and scholars disagree on interpretation and application.
Much like some Christianity school of thought that relies heavily on the understanding that scripture was very dependent on the audience and historical significance, many Muslims also believe that Sharia must be interpreted in the same type of ways.
Moderate Muslims as we like to call them are very much religious as their extremist counterparts but have a different interpretation of the Quran. I know that it is believed by many that that means they are not true Muslims or something of the like, we like to define their faith for them and become experts on Islamic theology although extremely ill equipped to do so. As we know there is nothing more frustrating when non Christians attempt to determine our faith for us, with little understanding.
With all that being said, there are Muslims countries that uphold Sharia Law that are democracies, and are not hardline like other countries and extremist groups but this hardline approach is beyond troubling. It's dangerous and barbaric.
What is also dangerous and barbaric is the hate and suspicion towards the majority moderate Muslim community. By having this attitude towards them we are lengthening the divide and helping to create and manifest fear and suspicion that is rampant on both sides.
They have every right to religious freedom, as do we.
We have every obligation to help those in need including Muslim refugees. Their conflict started because of a push against their government, a desire towards democracy. Rebels and civilians rose against the government, creating a civil war. Thrown in ISIS who they are both fighting, the country is in disrepair. They have been targeted on every side, chemical weapons used against them, they have been starved, made homeless, been bombed and are suffering. Neighbouring countries have been taking refugees for the last few years but when you are talking about half of the entire population, more than 4 million it's not suffice, not to mention conditions in refugees camps like in Jordan have seen the selling of Syrian women and girls as young as 10 being sold as sexual slaves, living in tent camps too afraid to go to the bathroom for fear of being raped, not by Syrian men but men from surrounding countries who are utilising their vulnerability.
And you know it's no surprise that non Christians act like non Christians, it is to be expected.
It wasn't Mohammed who said "love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those that mistreat you"
Jesus spoke those words
That's our standard.
Only made possible through the Holy Spirit, we could never achieve that on our own.
It is the Bible not the Quran that says "overcome evil with good"
It was Jesus not Mohammed, who prayed "Father forgive them; for they know not what they do"
As He took upon Hinself the sins of everyone of us.
It is Jesus' followers, not Mohammed's who have the higher calling of overcoming evil and loving our enemies. It is the easy road to only love those that love us, even Muslims do that. What makes us different??
You can never overcome hate and evil with hate, its overcoming a greater evil with a lesser evil but still tainted with the same brush.
Islam is not founded upon sacrificial love, so I get why some so called Muslims fuelled by hate do what they do, but I find not the same understanding for those who know that our Saviour loved His enemies so much that He shed His blood for them.
The true heart of christianity is love, we don't have to do backflips to understand this "so in everything, do unto others what you would have them do unto you, this sums up the law and the prophets". Law and Prophets meaning scripture.
After Jesus said loving our neighbour is right behind loving God in spiritual importance, someone asked "who is my neighbour?"
Jesus spoke about the Jew and the Samaritan. Strangers that regarded each other as heretics and disdain. Love is not the absence of hate but sacrificing and caring for those that may even hate us. Love looks after and tends to bloody wounds, it gives your donkey to another who thinks of you as their enemy while you walk, it pays for their accommodation till they are better, it is being selfless and looking after those even if they are our enemy.
Jesus was asked who is our neighbour and He made it clear it was everyone, even those who may seem to be against us. We must help and see all as our neighbours.
Jesus made it clear.