Do the horsemen of the apocalypse have a tangible existence? Or are they completely metaphorical?

[RickD]

I would like to point that it was actually Catholic bible prophecy teachers that started teaching that Mystery Babylon is the RCC ...

Source?

Byblos,

Can I ask how you have your board preferences set up, so whenever someone posts the word "Catholic", you get a notification?

[EssentialSacrifice]

Byblos wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
I would like to point that it was actually Catholic bible prophecy teachers that started teaching that Mystery Babylon is the RCC ...


Source?

Byblos,

Can I ask how you have your board preferences set up, so whenever someone posts the word "Catholic", you get a notification?

[Philip]

Let's not forget the FIFTH Horseman: Political Correctness - he's riding high in the saddle!

[EssentialSacrifice]

------> badpc ...

[RickD]

I'm so embarrassed!

I just realized it said horsemen.

All along, I thought it was the 4 norsemen of the apocalypse.

You know, Eric the Red, Leif Eriksson...

[abelcainsbrother]

I would like to point that it was actually Catholic bible prophecy teachers that started teaching that Mystery Babylon is the RCC ...

Source?

I have seen bible prophecy teacher teaching about it and documenting it by reading from Catholic writings about it.

[EssentialSacrifice]

I have seen bible prophecy teacher teaching about it and documenting it by reading from Catholic writings about it.

acb, theses aren't sources, they're just your ruminations on the topic. If you actually can present valid documentation that proves your point you should show it, not talk about what you hear or read sometime.

[melanie]

I know that a lot of groups want to see the RCC as the great babylon, or some want religion to be the great babylon or great harlot.
But in our desire to understand Revelation it is important NOT to read into what we WANT it to say (as some extreme protestants do to "prove" it is the Vatican).
We need to remember that John wrote/passed this on to the seven Churches and wrote it in a way that THEY would understand what was being warned.
Yes, there is a future audience in mind but John still wrote TO a late 1st century audience.

Revelations is very ambiguous.
There have been no end to interpretations regarding such.
I have read about everything I can get my hands on.
For curiosity sake and because I have an interest.
I don't believe that Islam is mystery Babylon, nor do I believe the Roman Catholic Church is either.
I think that it does not lie within any belief system that we recognise today but rather what will fulfil prophesy and arise. I think that every religion falls within its grasps, Christianity not withstanding.
Its not a religion rather an ideal.
Where idolising ourselves, Gods, pagan rule, anything outside the light of Christ brings about a false sense of togetherness.
Otherwise a universal religion could not be attained.
Could you imagine Jews and Christians worshipping an Islam messiah?
Could you imagine Muslims worshipping a Christian messiah.
Christians are awaiting the second coming
Jews are awaiting the first
And Muslims are awaiting their own messiah.

Keeping in mind that Gods children are those that Satan seeks to manipulate.
It has been that way since the dawn of time.
He seeks to destroy what is closest to Our Father.

Why go out of your way to destroy and manipulate what is already destined for ruin?
So much effort where it isn't needed!!
We are the enemy
The great deceiver will create and manipulate and set a world stage where the very elect will be deceived if possible.
He will keep us looking East while the enemy comes in by the West.
It is not a Particular religion, and it is not Islam.
It is a way to control and manipulate both non Christians and Christians.
Islam is its puppet as is many factions of Christianity.
The East is not our enemy nor is the west the face of Christ.
It is a manipulation towards an end goal.
You divide before you conquer.

Do you think Iran, Syria, Iraq has the world stage to promote a one world government?
Currency?
Ruined economies and social stability?
Not likely
It is within our own backyards that global dominance has the infrastructure to take hold, backed by the Elites and Monterey power.
This is a plan set by those that seek to take advantage of a battle between the east and west to set in motion a world stage of fear, intolerance, as they take your freedoms from you and transfer it to the governing rule, at the same time as manipulating foreign policy to secure their end agenda.

There is not a government outside of its manipulation, we would be wise to pretend otherwise.
Yes the U.S. and Austrailan governments are not working for Christ
But directly against Him.
It doesn't matter who you vote for that price was paid long ago.
He will have his way and create his ruin before our Saviour and Christ returns.

[B. W.]

I know that a lot of groups want to see the RCC as the great babylon, or some want religion to be the great babylon or great harlot.
But in our desire to understand Revelation it is important NOT to read into what we WANT it to say (as some extreme protestants do to "prove" it is the Vatican).
We need to remember that John wrote/passed this on to the seven Churches and wrote it in a way that THEY would understand what was being warned.
Yes, there is a future audience in mind but John still wrote TO a late 1st century audience.

People will know as bible end time prophecy unfolds. There were several schools of thought concerning who the Messiah would be, what he would do, and how he would come for around 400 years before Jesus appeared on earth.

Some folks had it right - that he would be God come in the flesh to set humanity free from darkness, others did not. It did not matter, when He appeared and Isaiah 53 fulfilled, many still did not get it. Even today, many still don't get it it about Isaiah 53.

In Isaiah 42:9 the Lord said this: "Behold, the former things have come to pass, And new things I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them." NKJV

Daniel 12:9, "And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." NKJV

The closer things get, more will be revealed. Before then, it was great to speculate. God does reveal to his people prophetic things so we can prepare our hearts and realize the times in which we live are in his hands and they themselves are too.

How close to the descriptions and names of old empires and nations geographic locations match their modern counterparts locations and what is currently going on. Recall, Israel as a Nation, is God's prophetic time piece and event in the Middle East help tell the time.

What is amazing is how blind folks have been to Islam, its history, rise, fall into obscurity, and renewal. It is certainly anti-christ and not a peaceful religion and honors a fortress/war like deity. Iran is poised to have or now has Nuclear weapons. Russia is inside Syria, the Nation of Turkey just shot down a Russian jet fighter as well and now the Russian rescue chopper was shot down by anti Assad rebels. Syria's and Iran's Shia Muslims are from those associated with the Bear deity as well as Russia known as the Bear. The you have ISIS is Sunni based. Two mixed people who in Daniel's book are called arabs.

ISIS raised a black Flag with it white lettering. The black flag has been raised again for conquest. The Red flag symbolism to avenge the fallen has been articulated in Belgium and Europe by Muslims as the reason for the attacks. Islam does have a mark on forehead and hand for non-Muslims is seen again in ISIS controlled areas so non-Muslims can buy and sell. They still lop of heads and torture. Iran's Shia leaders desire the Mahdi to return by their efforts.

World leaders as Mel pointed out are corrupt more and more corrupt, egotistical, etc. We have a recipe for disaster brewing. You have the PC and progressive superiority mind set that has infected western thought and reason numbing people to the approaching danger. However folks are worried. I was in a store with my wife on Sunday Evening when we heard booms and pops, and bangs. People in the store had a look of panic. No one knew that the shopping center would shoot off fireworks to celibate the beginning of holiday shopping season.

We are on another World Wide Terror alert till February 2016. A practice of Islamic invasion by migration is one the move again, this is a reality. The focus is on the middle east. Israel is in the cross hairs to be ethnically cleansed by Islamist. There is simply too much going on in an empirical manner to hide our collective heads in the sand and say all this has no bearing because all has gone on before.

We have folks actually saying this: "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." 2 Peter 3:4 NKJV

Something is happening on a global scale with a religion that has blended four ancient religions into one system that seeks to usher in a Mahdi savior... (Note Rev 13:1,2,3,4)

Summary - quoted from this Link

After reviewing the various Islamic traditions and opinions of the Muslim scholars, let’s now review and walk through a list of what we have learned about the person and the mission of the Mahdi as he exists in the minds of many of the 1.3 billion Muslims worldwide.

The Mahdi is Islam’s primary messiah figure.

He will be a descendant of Muhammad and will bear Muhammad’s name (Muhammad bin Abdullah).
He will be a very devout Muslim.
He will be an unparalleled spiritual, political and military world leader.
He will emerge after a period of great turmoil and suffering upon the earth.
He will establish justice and righteousness throughout the world and eradicate tyranny and oppression.
He will be the Caliph and Imam (vice-regent and leader) of Muslims worldwide
He will lead a world revolution and establish a new world order.
He will lead military action against all those who oppose him.
He will invade many countries.
He will make a seven year peace treaty with a Jew of priestly lineage.
He will conquer Israel for Islam and lead the “faithful Muslims” in a final slaughter/battle against Jews.
He will establish the new Islamic world headquarters from Jerusalem.
He will rule for seven years (possibly as much as eight or nine).
He will cause Islam to be the only religion practiced on the earth.
He will appear riding a white horse (possibly symbolic).
He will discover some previously undiscovered biblical manuscripts that he will use to argue with the Jews and cause some Jews to convert to Islam.
He will also re-discover the Ark of the Covenant from the Sea of Galilee, which he will bring to Jerusalem.
He will have supernatural power from Allah over the wind and the rain and crops.
He will posses and distribute enormous amounts of wealth.
He will be loved by all the people of the earth.

You know, I think it is clear God is trying to get our attention and the message of judgment to the Churches mentioned in Rev chapter 2 and 3 is unfolding...right now

What happens remains to be seen but at least let us tell the time and prepare our hearts for whatever is to come.
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[abelcainsbrother]

I have seen bible prophecy teacher teaching about it and documenting it by reading from Catholic writings about it.

acb, theses aren't sources, they're just your ruminations on the topic. If you actually can present valid documentation that proves your point you should show it, not talk about what you hear or read sometime.

I know what I saw,it was not just made up,you just don't believe me,and thats fine.What would you say if I was able to find the Catholic bible prophecy teaching they read from? They were not a Catholic? This is not slander,just because I don't have documentation right now.

[RickD]

ACB,

This is something I'd say you need to post a source on. Can't be making assertions without proof to back it up.

Or, you could always withdraw what you said.

[abelcainsbrother]

ACB,

This is something I'd say you need to post a source on. Can't be making assertions without proof to back it up.

Or, you could always withdraw what you said.

OK.I withdraw my acusation,for now until I can prove it.

[abelcainsbrother]

Now I reinstate my statement that a Catholic predicted a future corrupt Pope that would lead to the anti-christ and the Holy Roman Church being Mystery Babylon.It was Catholics who started this prophecy and some Catholics still believe this prophecy and think about it everytime a new Pope is picked.
Prophecy of the Popes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

[Storyteller]

Now I reinstate my statement that a Catholic predicted a future corrupt Pope that would lead to the anti-christ and the Holy Roman Church being Mystery Babylon.It was Catholics who started this prophecy and some Catholics still believe this prophecy and think about it everytime a new Pope is picked.
Prophecy of the Popes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

It states in that article the RCC dismisses it as a forgery.

[abelcainsbrother]

Now I reinstate my statement that a Catholic predicted a future corrupt Pope that would lead to the anti-christ and the Holy Roman Church being Mystery Babylon.It was Catholics who started this prophecy and some Catholics still believe this prophecy and think about it everytime a new Pope is picked.
Prophecy of the Popes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

It states in that article the RCC dismisses it as a forgery.

I know this but it was still started by a Catholic,that was my point.