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Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:48 am
by Storyteller
IceMobster wrote:
Storyteller wrote:God doesn't choose who goes to hell.

We ourselves choose, by rejecting Christ.

And we are not punished for our actions, we may be disciplined but not punished. Why should you go to Heaven and spend etrnity with an entity you have never believed in?

Welcome to the forum btw :)
By rejecting Christ? Does that mean that Muslims also go to hell? They see Christ as a messenger of God. However, they do not claim he is God.
And that is how they reject God. The only way to God is through Christ. "I am the way, the truth. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:16
IceMobster wrote:What about adherents of any other religion in the world?
Are they all doomed just because their religion or belief made more sense to them than Christ?
Yes. In a word. If they choose another religion other than clinging to, and following Christ, they are rejecting Christ. If they reject Christ, they reject God.
IceMobster wrote:"We may be disciplined but not punished." What is the difference? You go to hell either way?
I think we will all be held accountable for our actions BUT by following Christ our punishment, our debt to God has already been paid, in full. Every single sin that is possible to commit, possible to imagine, Christ took them all on Himself so that we can abide in God. If we reject that gift then we choose hell.
IceMobster wrote:To get back to my second sentence here, how can you claim God is full of love and/or mercy if all adherents of other religions (and of all those religions before Christianity) are going to hell simply by rejecting Christ?
So it would be more loving to force someone to believe in and follow Christ? God, as far as I am aware only condemns those that reject Christ. If you haven`t heard of Christ, how can you reject Him? He died for all of us, past, present and future.
God is love, He is immutable, so that love has to be absolutely perfect, otherwise He wouldn`t be God. You say "going to hell simply by rejecting Christ" It`s not simply though, is it? Christ is God. He loves humanity and His creation enough, so perfectly, so eternally, He contained Himself as a man, He showed us Himself, lived without sin. God became human, took on every pain, every injustice, every sin, every wrongdoing and died, then rose again, all so that we, imperfect, sinful beings that we are, can be redeemed in and through the love and grace of God.

IceMobster wrote:As for the question you asked; the "!" mark is used to report a post (as can be seen if you put your cursor on it and hold it there for a few seconds) and the "*" mark is used to set a bookmark/to set as if you didn't read this post yet.
Thanks :)

As for the welcome part, you have my thanks.
Nessa wrote: *flips coin*
IceMobster wrote:Does anyone deserve eternal heaven? y:-?
Yes, why not? Heaven and earth were once the same thing until the point of Adam & Eve committing sin. After all, it is a place where you get to meet your maker, where you find out the truth, where irrelevant "earthly" things no longer matter. Right?
You kinda answered your own question there. Because sin entered the world.
IceMobster wrote:The thing is, in hell you do not feel good, which is why I asked if anyone deserves not feeling good forever and ever...
Why do any of us, sinful as we are, deserve to feel good? [/quote]

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:13 am
by PaulSacramento
To reject God is to reject Love, the source and sustainer of Love.
That is to reject all the is good and pure.
So, yes, anyone the knowingly rejects God "deserves" Hell.
Now, what "hell" is, is another matter of course.

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:24 pm
by IceMobster
B. W. wrote:.
Well, that means that ~68.5% of Earth's population goes to hell? Since there are -31.5% Christians in the world.

What is with the people before Christ? Are they all in hell now?
What is with the people that never heard about Christ or Christianity in their life? Hell?
What is with the people that heard about Christ, but their religion made more sense to them? Hell?

Well, F*%#! Do I want to accept such a God which sends everyone else to hell? Not to mention that you can't comprehend God with reason alone. You also have to believe in things He had done which have little or no connection with reason and/or world today......

You see, I've got a friend which is an agnostic(realizes there is something greater but does not want to accept any religion because you can't know which is the correct one - since all of them state so...). We have quite a lot of topic in common and our conversation is never a dull one or small/empty talk. There are no illusions between us. Either say the truth (not Truth in this case) or F*%# off.
Thinking that we would not be in the same soul state only because he didn't embrace Christ as his Savior is pretty shocking... :?


------------------------------

I am well aware that we are all good for hell because of our imperfectness and of the sins you mentioned.

Furthermore, as for this quote:
"I am wondering if that is what you are doing, Ice, pitting Gods character trait of Love against its own nature in order to get away with all dysfunction by your form of logic and reason? "

I disagree. I am questioning God mainly because there might be a person in the future similar to me who would ask similar/same questions. How will I answer him/her if I didn't get an answer to my questions?
You see, I can understand how God is immensely transcending and, at the same time, right next to us. Following that logic (since I understand it), I asked myself how can God be absolutely loving and absolutely just at the same time. Which is how, I, in the end, got to this question. I want to understand... I am not some non humble, hostile, arrogant person who wants to find a flaw so I can bash the s#!% out of God or any of his followers/commands/whatever. Or maybe I am... I'm sorry if you got such an impression, but I know that I will get similar questions in the future because there will be people who will overthink it so I am afraid or something, idk... I just want to understand, but my reason doesn't allow me to embrace God through faith... :?

Why would the person deny Christ in heaven as well? At that point, the person would know the truth - that is that Jesus died for them and they were too stupid/ignorant/arrogant/blind/something to acknowledge that. The problem would only be if, the person, after they have been told the truth/Truth, reject Jesus.

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:52 pm
by Storyteller
If you were before Christ, hadnt heard of Christ, didnt know Christ isnt condemnation to hell. You cannot reject what you dont know. But if you know it, and reject it, then you choose hell. Not God.

No one would deny Christ in heaven because you cannot deny Him and enter heaven.

As for those who hear of Christ but choose a different religion, why would they want to be in the heaven that Christ is in? Why would they choose Him then, if they didnt in life?

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:45 pm
by IceMobster
Well, standing at the gates of heaven, they would obviously notice they've done wrong to not acknowledge Christ as their God and after they realize that, they would ask for forgiveness and be forgiven? At least, that is what I would do.

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:50 pm
by Storyteller
IceMobster wrote:Well, standing at the gates of heaven, they would obviously notice they've done wrong to not acknowledge Christ as their God and after they realize that, they would ask for forgiveness and be forgiven? At least, that is what I would do.
Maybe.

But you're not God.

And who is to say He doesn't, or wouldn't.

Sooner or later, He will pass judgement. I believe we have til then, but i dont wanna face judgement without making up my mind to accept Christ, and I do.

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:19 pm
by Kurieuo
IceMobster wrote:
B. W. wrote:.
Well, that means that ~68.5% of Earth's population goes to hell? Since there are -31.5% Christians in the world.
I'd say a lot more than that would end up cast out from God. Jesus Himself said (Matt 7:13-14),
  • Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
So Christians can't really ignore the guy they're following on this.
And really, I'm not sure I see what your issue is. If it is what it is, then it is what it is.

I mean, it's bad when someone slips off a cliff and dies, but such is a natural consequence of gravity.
Can you please elaborate exactly what is logically wrong with Hell's existence?

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:32 pm
by IceMobster
Kurieuo wrote:
IceMobster wrote:
B. W. wrote:.
Well, that means that ~68.5% of Earth's population goes to hell? Since there are -31.5% Christians in the world.
I'd say a lot more than that would end up cast out from God. Jesus Himself said (Matt 7:13-14),
  • Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
So Christians can't really ignore the guy they're following on this.
And really, I'm not sure I see what your issue is. If it is what it is, then it is what it is.

I mean, it's bad when someone slips off a cliff and dies, but such is a natural consequence of gravity.
Can you please elaborate exactly what is logically wrong with Hell's existence?
Well, I don't get it how can I be at peace in heaven (let us say I ended up there) knowing the other 70% of the population ended up in hell. Not to mention all of those people before and after us and not to mention all of those who will spend an eternity there.

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:13 pm
by Kurieuo
IceMobster wrote:
Kurieuo wrote:
IceMobster wrote:
B. W. wrote:.
Well, that means that ~68.5% of Earth's population goes to hell? Since there are -31.5% Christians in the world.
I'd say a lot more than that would end up cast out from God. Jesus Himself said (Matt 7:13-14),
  • Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
So Christians can't really ignore the guy they're following on this.
And really, I'm not sure I see what your issue is. If it is what it is, then it is what it is.

I mean, it's bad when someone slips off a cliff and dies, but such is a natural consequence of gravity.
Can you please elaborate exactly what is logically wrong with Hell's existence?
Well, I don't get it how can I be at peace in heaven (let us say I ended up there) knowing the other 70% of the population ended up in hell. Not to mention all of those people before and after us and not to mention all of those who will spend an eternity there.
Is there some logical reasoning for why you couldn't be at peace?
Consider that people die in our lives, become cut off and the like. Even a great number of people.
Does that mean we can't be happy or at peace in this life?

Also consider the dilemma posed by your love for God, the true LORD of lords, and KING of kings being hated by your loved ones. Furthermore, you know that your Lord is right, good, loving... and your loves ones, if God exists, are denying the very source who gave them any sense of such things. Who do you side with? The One who is right, or the ones who are wrong? It's heartbreaking sure, but we can't control what other people choose.

If God exists, then there needs to be a place for such people outside of God's Kingdom, unless they're just annihilated from existence. Even if we know and remember those cast out from God's presence, as much as such would sadden us, it seems an unavoidable necessity.

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:11 am
by melanie
I'm not convinced at all that the doctrine of hell as understood by mainstream Christianity is either correct or biblically sound.
I have in the past jumped through hoops trying to reconcile the doctrine of an all encompassing, torturous, never ending hell. I myself have gone down the road of reasoning such as 'people choose this outcome not God'. But the truth is many people don't. There have been countless of people who have never been given the opportunity to make such a choice.
There are those that believe that such people have been deliberately placed geographically by God so as to not have the opportunity to make a choice. Not only do I believe this to have no basis in scripture I also believe it goes against the very nature of God.
So we are left with many unknowns. People who have never had a choice, people who have been intellectual and mental disabilities, children who die before a choice can be made and the impossible questions as to when a child crosses over from incapable of making choices to an age of accountability.

The doctrine of hell causes Christians a relentless amount of fear. I have seen It personally and on here. People who are so concerned about the eternity of their loved ones that they are pushed to extreme evangelising to them which often has the opposite effect. It causes them sleepless nights and so much anguish.
There is no fear in Christ, only peace.
Whilst I had not worked out theologically my beliefs I have always known that God has this under His loving and righteous control.

The more I study scripture and ancient Hebrew and Greek the more ambigious this doctrine becomes. The doctrine of hell doesn't stand alone in this.

In the past I treaded very carefully in my wordings for fear of being labelled a universalist. These days I am less concerned with what others may think, or whatever label they may slap on me. For the record I'm not a universalist but I also do not believe that the vast majority of people end up in a fiery pit of endless torture and torment for eternity. When you start to get your mind around the concept of eternity, torture and torment without end, ever....questions arise as to the legitimacy of such a claim.
My scriptural study has led me to believe that this is not the case.
My old arguments that people deserve it, we all deserve it but for the grace of God, was a regurgited argument and the only one I had in the face of what has always been a very uncomfortable doctrine within my spirit.
The truth is of course we all fall far short. But to claim that those that are non Christians hate God is in my opinion quite the leap. We all know people whom we are very close too, who are non Christians who are wonderful, caring, loving people. Quite often more so than those that claim eternal bliss whilst condemning others to an eternity of hellish, fiery torture.
These people may be our children, father, sister, neighbour friend ect.
I have read many accounts and spoken personally to so many Christians who are driven by such an intense fear that their loved ones are doomed to an eternity of torture that their lives are turned upside down. The anxiety and fear have led to many negative repercussions in their lives and their spiritual walk.
I have never been troubled by this personally as I have always had trust in my Father, I knew that He would just work it all out. I wasn't sure exactly how but that He would. All the while still professing for the most part this doctrine with the same answers that are put forward time and time again. I never really believed it but it is such an indoctrinated dogma that we sometimes accept things even when our spirit is telling us something different.

So IceMobster my advice to you is research the history of the doctrine, look at scripture, at the Hebrew and Greek. You are a Christian so listen to your spirit which through the Holy Spirit can help reveal answers. Something is amiss right now, by evidence of your posts. Clearly you are having issues reconciling a doctrine within yourself. Either you are wrong or the doctrine is wrong.
Don't get bogged under popular opinion or dogma.
You have what you need to work this out by way of the Holy Spirit, scripture and intellect and discernment.
I could be wrong, as could anybody else but at the end of the day you have to reconcile this within yourself because believing in a God that makes you question His fairness and love will only plant obstacles in your walk and limit your trust.
The doctrine of hell has had a major impact on Christianity and Christians. You are not alone in finding this very difficult to get your head and heart around. Many will tell you and myself that just because you don't 'like' the idea of something doesn't make it untruthful which is a great point but it doesn't make it truthful either. That is where study and prayer come in.
When you stick your hand to close to a flame instinct is to move it pretty darn quick.
If your instinct is giving you the 'flight' response in regards to the hell doctrine the perhaps you need to work closer to an understanding that leaves you more grounded.
That could be reconciling the doctrine with a clearer understanding which I'm sure people here can help you with. But work it out on your own, don't accept something due to popularity, accept it because you believe it to be truth.
In saying that I don't for one second claim that I know with full understanding the workings of God and the mysteries of the afterlife and the state of anybody's eternity, I'll leave that up to God.
But I'm trusting in God, walking in humility and learning along the way...

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 6:01 am
by PaulSacramento
I'm not convinced at all that the doctrine of hell as understood by mainstream Christianity is either correct or biblically sound.
Considering there is more than one doctrine of hell, which one are you referring to?

The notion, the understanding of a place of eternal punishment comes from the lake of fire in revelation.
The understanding of a place where people that reject Christ and God go and where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth" is from that same place ( lake of fire).
The above or EXPLICIT comments in the NT.

The view that some people, when they die, go to "hell" and others to "heaven" is what is implied in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, though it can be argued that a 1st century Jew hearing that parabel would not view it in that way but that the rich man and lazarus were both in Sheol, just different places.

In short, the eternal punishment hell that mots think of is the final death in the lake of fire.

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:02 am
by Philip
Mel: But the truth is many people don't. There have been countless of people who have never been given the opportunity to make such a choice.
ALL people have been made aware of God because He has made clear His existence, since the beginning of the world (Romans 1), but man has mostly chosen to reject even their basic understandings of Him, desiring instead to follow their own desires. Paul says this in addressing pagans and those without the Gospel. Christ is part of God/IS God. You CAN reject God - even if you only know the basics, that He exists - and in doing so, you are automatically also rejecting Christ, even if you've never heard of Him or the Gospel. Paul says people's "thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened" and "as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done."
Mel: There are those that believe that such people have been deliberately placed geographically by God so as to not have the opportunity to make a choice. Not only do I believe this to have no basis in scripture I also believe it goes against the very nature of God.
This is false - God is not limited by any remote geography. ANY person ANYwhere can call upon God. If they want to know Him, He will show them. He will connect them with a missionary or whatever, even reveal Himself in dreams or visions (as He did with Cornelius). Again, you do not have to know God's requirements more fully (have an awareness of Jesus and the Gospel) to reject God. Paul in addressing this very issue doesn't even mention Jesus - which is very interesting.
Mel: So we are left with many unknowns. People who have never had a choice
ALL people have ALWAYS had a choice whether to reject or desire to know God more fully. Prior to Jesus, they could not know more than had been already revealed to them about God. God does not withhold that which he demands one do - He will do all of the rest, even help one to belief - IF this is what they desire. But the entire history of man - even in our own Western society - shows the exact opposite: a denial and lack of desire to know God.
Mel: people who have been intellectual and mental disabilities, children who die before a choice can be made and the impossible questions as to when a child crosses over from incapable of making choices to an age of accountability.
God is fair! He does not require what a person CANNOT do, but what one CAN do. A child or a mentally ill person does not have the proper ability to understand what is required of those whom do have such ability.
Mel: The doctrine of hell causes Christians a relentless amount of fear. I have seen It personally and on here. People who are so concerned about the eternity of their loved ones that they are pushed to extreme evangelizing to them which often has the opposite effect. It causes them sleepless nights and so much anguish.
And EVERYONE should fear hell! Jesus relentlessly warned of it, the horrific consequences. The Bible is saturated with such warnings. Really, the warnings are the most loving and honest, as do you not warn your children of playing in the street, of the terrible death that a car striking them will bring. Or painful lingering injuries. Yes, fear is appropriate to motivate SOME. But not for most, as their response is to deny God even exists or such a fate could ever be possible. That is how they deal with any supposed hell.
There is no fear in Christ, only peace.
An yet: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28) In fact, "fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom..." (Proverbs 9:10)
Mel: The more I study scripture and ancient Hebrew and Greek the more ambiguous this doctrine becomes. The doctrine of hell doesn't stand alone in this.
I surely don't see the prolific words of Jesus and the Apostles all in perfect harmony in their warnings of hell to be in any way ambiguous.
Mel: I also do not believe that the vast majority of people end up in a fiery pit of endless torture and torment for eternity. When you start to get your mind around the concept of eternity, torture and torment without end, ever....questions arise as to the legitimacy of such a claim.
Questions should arise is as to what is written in Scripture by so many, especially Jesus' own words, true or not?
Mel: But to claim that those that are non Christians hate God is in my opinion quite the leap. We all know people whom we are very close too, who are non Christians who are wonderful, caring, loving people. Quite often more so than those that claim eternal bliss whilst condemning others to an eternity of hellish, fiery torture.
The fact is that people either embrace God or they reject Him. There are no other categories. To reject God is evil. We cannot see into people's hearts and minds, so on the surface, people don't seem terribly different than many Christians. But there will be NO rebels in Heaven. God will not allow those determined to resist Him and to only bow to their own desires into His presence.
Mel: I have read many accounts and spoken personally to so many Christians who are driven by such an intense fear that their loved ones are doomed to an eternity of torture that their lives are turned upside down. The anxiety and fear have led to many negative repercussions in their lives and their spiritual walk.
This is true, but is also not trusting that God knows what is best for us. And He will not DRAG people into His Kingdom, against their will.
Mel: You are not alone in finding this very difficult to get your head and heart around.
NO one likes the Bible's teachings on Hell. I surely don't. But Jesus said it. Those closest to Him that were His Apostles, those that saw a Resurrected Christ prolifically taught it. To reject it is to reject Scripture. Yes, it is a terrible thought. And whatever it really is, for a spiritual being, is a place of mental anguish of their own consciences constantly accusing them. And it doesn't mean that they instead would later want to turn to God. Yes, like the Rich man in hell, they will want relief from their self-caused and perpetuating circumstances. But that doesn't mean they will desire to love God. At the very least, it is an eternal separation from God and all He offers them. To reject that is simply mind-boggling!

If one accepts that Scripture is God-given, they also cannot deny that it relentlessly teaches and warns of hell. And whatever that might entail, it not only ain't good - it would appear to be FOREVER!

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:59 am
by Jac3510
Mel,

I'm interested in understanding your position. You say you are not a universalist (even as you say that you don't really care about labels). So do you think that some people will be in Hell, just not the majority? I'm also curious as to your thoughts on Matt 25:41? I won't bother posting dozens of verses. There are plenty I could ask about, but I assume that you've looked at that one as you think that the doctrine is "ambiguous." It seems very clear to me that some humans will end up in the Lake of Fire. If you concede that (and maybe you don't), are you maybe suggesting that only a minority of people will end up in such a place?

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:20 pm
by Philip
According to how many seem to see the lost, those in places without the Gospel, why do they think we should do missions, IF their present understanding or lack of knowledge of Jesus is somehow acceptable to God? What is all this "Go forth!" stuff all about? If a person living somewhere remote, worships a certain pagan or false god, yet sincerely so - or NO god/God - and such a person is somehow acceptable to God, what are we to say of such a person whom the Gospel is revealed to - who nonetheless rejects it and clings to their already established beliefs? Are they OK after hearing and rejecting the Gospel, or not? You see, for such people, whether without the Gospel or after hearing it, their beliefs remain the same - as do their rejection of the TRUE God for the various things they created and attempt to substitute for Him. Are we to say those in ignorance can follow pagan beliefs and gods and God will save them, but that the very same people who subsequently hear the Gospel and reject it are doomed? This makes no sense, as they would rather follow their pagan beliefs.

News flash: IF the Gospel is not crucial to people being saved, we can stop ALL missions immediately! BTW, missionaries are the reasons those of us in the West believe - it's not as if the Gospel originated here.

Re: Does anyone deserve eternal hell?

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:54 pm
by IceMobster
Philip wrote:
Mel: But the truth is many people don't. There have been countless of people who have never been given the opportunity to make such a choice.
ALL people have been made aware of God because He has made clear His existence, since the beginning of the world (Romans 1), but man has mostly chosen to reject even their basic understandings of Him, desiring instead to follow their own desires. Paul says this in addressing pagans and those without the Gospel. Christ is part of God/IS God. You CAN reject God - even if you only know the basics, that He exists - and in doing so, you are automatically also rejecting Christ, even if you've never heard of Him or the Gospel. Paul says people's "thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened" and "as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done."
Mel: There are those that believe that such people have been deliberately placed geographically by God so as to not have the opportunity to make a choice. Not only do I believe this to have no basis in scripture I also believe it goes against the very nature of God.
This is false - God is not limited by any remote geography. ANY person ANYwhere can call upon God. If they want to know Him, He will show them. He will connect them with a missionary or whatever, even reveal Himself in dreams or visions (as He did with Cornelius). Again, you do not have to know God's requirements more fully (have an awareness of Jesus and the Gospel) to reject God. Paul in addressing this very issue doesn't even mention Jesus - which is very interesting.
Mel: So we are left with many unknowns. People who have never had a choice
ALL people have ALWAYS had a choice whether to reject or desire to know God more fully. Prior to Jesus, they could not know more than had been already revealed to them about God. God does not withhold that which he demands one do - He will do all of the rest, even help one to belief - IF this is what they desire. But the entire history of man - even in our own Western society - shows the exact opposite: a denial and lack of desire to know God.
Mel: people who have been intellectual and mental disabilities, children who die before a choice can be made and the impossible questions as to when a child crosses over from incapable of making choices to an age of accountability.
God is fair! He does not require what a person CANNOT do, but what one CAN do. A child or a mentally ill person does not have the proper ability to understand what is required of those whom do have such ability.
Mel: The doctrine of hell causes Christians a relentless amount of fear. I have seen It personally and on here. People who are so concerned about the eternity of their loved ones that they are pushed to extreme evangelizing to them which often has the opposite effect. It causes them sleepless nights and so much anguish.
And EVERYONE should fear hell! Jesus relentlessly warned of it, the horrific consequences. The Bible is saturated with such warnings. Really, the warnings are the most loving and honest, as do you not warn your children of playing in the street, of the terrible death that a car striking them will bring. Or painful lingering injuries. Yes, fear is appropriate to motivate SOME. But not for most, as their response is to deny God even exists or such a fate could ever be possible. That is how they deal with any supposed hell.
There is no fear in Christ, only peace.
An yet: "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28) In fact, "fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom..." (Proverbs 9:10)
Mel: The more I study scripture and ancient Hebrew and Greek the more ambiguous this doctrine becomes. The doctrine of hell doesn't stand alone in this.
I surely don't see the prolific words of Jesus and the Apostles all in perfect harmony in their warnings of hell to be in any way ambiguous.
Mel: I also do not believe that the vast majority of people end up in a fiery pit of endless torture and torment for eternity. When you start to get your mind around the concept of eternity, torture and torment without end, ever....questions arise as to the legitimacy of such a claim.
Questions should arise is as to what is written in Scripture by so many, especially Jesus' own words, true or not?
Mel: But to claim that those that are non Christians hate God is in my opinion quite the leap. We all know people whom we are very close too, who are non Christians who are wonderful, caring, loving people. Quite often more so than those that claim eternal bliss whilst condemning others to an eternity of hellish, fiery torture.
The fact is that people either embrace God or they reject Him. There are no other categories. To reject God is evil. We cannot see into people's hearts and minds, so on the surface, people don't seem terribly different than many Christians. But there will be NO rebels in Heaven. God will not allow those determined to resist Him and to only bow to their own desires into His presence.
Mel: I have read many accounts and spoken personally to so many Christians who are driven by such an intense fear that their loved ones are doomed to an eternity of torture that their lives are turned upside down. The anxiety and fear have led to many negative repercussions in their lives and their spiritual walk.
This is true, but is also not trusting that God knows what is best for us. And He will not DRAG people into His Kingdom, against their will.
Mel: You are not alone in finding this very difficult to get your head and heart around.
NO one likes the Bible's teachings on Hell. I surely don't. But Jesus said it. Those closest to Him that were His Apostles, those that saw a Resurrected Christ prolifically taught it. To reject it is to reject Scripture. Yes, it is a terrible thought. And whatever it really is, for a spiritual being, is a place of mental anguish of their own consciences constantly accusing them. And it doesn't mean that they instead would later want to turn to God. Yes, like the Rich man in hell, they will want relief from their self-caused and perpetuating circumstances. But that doesn't mean they will desire to love God. At the very least, it is an eternal separation from God and all He offers them. To reject that is simply mind-boggling!

If one accepts that Scripture is God-given, they also cannot deny that it relentlessly teaches and warns of hell. And whatever that might entail, it not only ain't good - it would appear to be FOREVER!
God is not limited by geography, but limits certain people access to the Scripture. How can you claim he is fair, then?
You can't say He does not(limit the access). Imagine a kid in Asia working in slave labor. When will (s)he hear about Scripture, Christ or Christianity? Never. Why would (s)he desire to know God? Only thing (s)he knows is working 12+ hours a day... Following your logic, (s)he is going to hell for rejecting Christ...
How can one call upon God if one doesn't know Him?