Evidence for God from Science

Yes. Belief in God is something we don't even think about. We just take it for granted, like the sun comes up every morning. The sun just IS in the sky. God just IS.

Nothing attracts me to atheism (unlike agnosticism).
The thing that does attract me are atheists. I find it more than not that they are more intelligent than the theist "counterparts". However, that is based on personal observation (both in real life and on the internet) and is thus probably not true / not necessarily true.
As I said in the other thread, I would kill myself if there was nothing in the end.

Think how Anakin was burdened by the Light Side, he wasn't allowed to love.

Didn't realize Anakin was a seminarian..

I've met nice atheist but the militant atheist are another story, however, I found that because there are nice and decent atheist does not mean I am attracted to the ideology of atheism itself.

To be honest, way back in my atheistic era, nothing really did back then either. I sort of fell into it for my own reasons such as grandfathers untimely death and the push in public schools and culture to ridicule Christians as buffoons while atheist were projected as being morally superior to all. Maybe as a non-believer I was attracted to the power trip atheism projects upon others. I could be rude, snobbish, crass with morally superior impunity.

Later I discovered how stupid that mindset really is. Today, it causes me to pity militant atheist, and makes me want to kindly slap some sense into them for their own good, like happened to me long ago as it was the only method that caused me to find Jesus - that He is and is real...

No, in fact there is nothing to attract me to atheism...nothing at all
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I've met nice people.
And I've met twats.
Across the board.
we can talk about militant atheist being an obnoxious, self serving group of people but my experience has shown me that that's just people.
My experience of selfishness and self righteousness came not outside the church but within it.
That is my experience,
Because I grew up around that atmosphere
I learnt of pridefulness, arrogance, and superiority within the walls of church
People are self servicing and ultimately selfish
Church is not the separator.
I'm not saying that atheists have any high ground over Christians but the truth came out long ago that Christians can not claim the high ground either, we are fallen together.
that is were went wrong, claiming moral superiority but proving time and time again we just ain't that different.
Bar Christ.
He was Different
We're not special He was!

RickD wrote:Yes. Belief in God is something we don't even think about. We just take it for granted, like the sun comes up every morning. The sun just IS in the sky. God just IS.

Kinda didnt think you guys actually thought about it.

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:Actually,

I'm attracted to theism. But my definition of theism may be different from the traditional definition of theism.

Theism-lack of belief in the non-existence of God.

I hold to this definition(the correct one) so I don't have to defend my lack of belief. Since I don't actually believe God exists, it's not a belief I have to defend.

Given all else I believe, I'd be a walking contradiction to say I lack any belief in Something higher.

You don't need to say you lack a belief in God. Just lack a belief in His non-existence. See? Easy peasy. No positive belief=not needing to back any beliefs. You can just make others back their beliefs, while taking the dishonest position of just saying you lack a belief.

Yes, I get your point.

To add, some things we just do naturally or by habit without necessarily thinking I've got the believe A, B and C.
That someone has to say "I believe in God" is just a response to those who question God's existence. Like "huh, what?" A rude interjection to what just seems normal.

Kind of like when you really have to get somewhere.
You just think I'm going now and you jump in the car and away you go.
But, you didn't consider the petrol would be low, so now you have to make a stop to put some gas in your car.
Then, finally, you might just have enough time to get to where you're going. Turn the key in your car and then it starts clicking over. "Huh, what?", you say before realising you've now got a flat battery.

Well, what you just naturally thought would be jumping in the car and driving has just been rudely interrupted.
You previously just were going to jump in the car and get to your destination on time, but now you have all these annoying hindrances questioning what you previously just naturally accepted.

Similarly, if there weren't Atheists, then I'd not have given another thought to God's lack of existence. But, now I'm faced with those who question God's existence which I find most natural to just accept and I'm forced into a position of what I must now believe. When really in my natural state I just accepted God's existence, it seems most logical, plain and intuitive without even thinking. Kind of like what we do in life really does matter, which often only becomes questioned by many when faced with existential questions or death.

What does you and RD both being too clever by one half add up to?

Audie wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:Actually,

I'm attracted to theism. But my definition of theism may be different from the traditional definition of theism.

Theism-lack of belief in the non-existence of God.

I hold to this definition(the correct one) so I don't have to defend my lack of belief. Since I don't actually believe God exists, it's not a belief I have to defend.

Given all else I believe, I'd be a walking contradiction to say I lack any belief in Something higher.

You don't need to say you lack a belief in God. Just lack a belief in His non-existence. See? Easy peasy. No positive belief=not needing to back any beliefs. You can just make others back their beliefs, while taking the dishonest position of just saying you lack a belief.

Yes, I get your point.

To add, some things we just do naturally or by habit without necessarily thinking I've got the believe A, B and C.
That someone has to say "I believe in God" is just a response to those who question God's existence. Like "huh, what?" A rude interjection to what just seems normal.

Kind of like when you really have to get somewhere.
You just think I'm going now and you jump in the car and away you go.
But, you didn't consider the petrol would be low, so now you have to make a stop to put some gas in your car.
Then, finally, you might just have enough time to get to where you're going. Turn the key in your car and then it starts clicking over. "Huh, what?", you say before realising you've now got a flat battery.

Well, what you just naturally thought would be jumping in the car and driving has just been rudely interrupted.
You previously just were going to jump in the car and get to your destination on time, but now you have all these annoying hindrances questioning what you previously just naturally accepted.

Similarly, if there weren't Atheists, then I'd not have given another thought to God's lack of existence. But, now I'm faced with those who question God's existence which I find most natural to just accept and I'm forced into a position of what I must now believe. When really in my natural state I just accepted God's existence, it seems most logical, plain and intuitive without even thinking. Kind of like what we do in life really does matter, which often only becomes questioned by many when faced with existential questions or death.

What does you and RD both being too clever by one half add up to?

One half.

You said both.

If you hadnt said both, then it would two halves.

B. W. wrote:In response to the other thread how about this:

Does anything attract you to Atheism?
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-
-

Yep, for sure.
Moral ambiguity for one.
Being a well trained martial artist along with being a former high level military operative gives me a unique perspective on what I CAN do and what I OUGHT to do.
In short, IF I wanted to do what I wanted, very few people would be able to stop me, very few.
laws are a starting point not an end point and they exist to enforce a moral code.
No moral code and the only reason not to follow the laws is because you fear repercussions.
It is obvious how that point is moot for certain people.

There is also the appeal that I could, sexually, do whatever I wanted.

There is also the fact that, as an atheist, I wouldn't have to focus on anyone other than myself and I would NOT be a "slave" to any higher standard than the "acceptable one".

Now, that does NOT mean that as an atheist I WOULD do those things because, quite certainly, many atheists do NOT.

My point is that, as an atheist, there would be no reason NOT do other than, perhaps, fear of the law and repercussions from society ( which I could avoid very easily if I wanted to).

PaulSacramento wrote:

B. W. wrote:In response to the other thread how about this:

Does anything attract you to Atheism?
-
-
-

Yep, for sure.
Moral ambiguity for one.
Being a well trained martial artist along with being a former high level military operative gives me a unique perspective on what I CAN do and what I OUGHT to do.
In short, IF I wanted to do what I wanted, very few people would be able to stop me, very few.
laws are a starting point not an end point and they exist to enforce a moral code.
No moral code and the only reason not to follow the laws is because you fear repercussions.
It is obvious how that point is moot for certain people.

There is also the appeal that I could, sexually, do whatever I wanted.

There is also the fact that, as an atheist, I wouldn't have to focus on anyone other than myself and I would NOT be a "slave" to any higher standard than the "acceptable one".

Now, that does NOT mean that as an atheist I WOULD do those things because, quite certainly, many atheists do NOT.

My point is that, as an atheist, there would be no reason NOT do other than, perhaps, fear of the law and repercussions from society ( which I could avoid very easily if I wanted to).

Perhaps if you'd grown up "godless" the way I did, you'd see how odd your perspective is.

Law and repercussions affect everyone. I, though, dont need carrot and stick to live up to my expectations for myself.

Storyteller wrote:

Audie wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote:

Kurieuo wrote: Given all else I believe, I'd be a walking contradiction to say I lack any belief in Something higher.

You don't need to say you lack a belief in God. Just lack a belief in His non-existence. See? Easy peasy. No positive belief=not needing to back any beliefs. You can just make others back their beliefs, while taking the dishonest position of just saying you lack a belief.

Yes, I get your point.

To add, some things we just do naturally or by habit without necessarily thinking I've got the believe A, B and C.
That someone has to say "I believe in God" is just a response to those who question God's existence. Like "huh, what?" A rude interjection to what just seems normal.

Kind of like when you really have to get somewhere.
You just think I'm going now and you jump in the car and away you go.
But, you didn't consider the petrol would be low, so now you have to make a stop to put some gas in your car.
Then, finally, you might just have enough time to get to where you're going. Turn the key in your car and then it starts clicking over. "Huh, what?", you say before realising you've now got a flat battery.

Well, what you just naturally thought would be jumping in the car and driving has just been rudely interrupted.
You previously just were going to jump in the car and get to your destination on time, but now you have all these annoying hindrances questioning what you previously just naturally accepted.

Similarly, if there weren't Atheists, then I'd not have given another thought to God's lack of existence. But, now I'm faced with those who question God's existence which I find most natural to just accept and I'm forced into a position of what I must now believe. When really in my natural state I just accepted God's existence, it seems most logical, plain and intuitive without even thinking. Kind of like what we do in life really does matter, which often only becomes questioned by many when faced with existential questions or death.

What does you and RD both being too clever by one half add up to?

One half.

You said both.

If you hadnt said both, then it would two halves.

That was the point, I wanted to know if it added up to one, or to half man / half wit.

Audie wrote:

Storyteller wrote:

Audie wrote:

Kurieuo wrote:

RickD wrote: You don't need to say you lack a belief in God. Just lack a belief in His non-existence. See? Easy peasy. No positive belief=not needing to back any beliefs. You can just make others back their beliefs, while taking the dishonest position of just saying you lack a belief.

Yes, I get your point.

To add, some things we just do naturally or by habit without necessarily thinking I've got the believe A, B and C.
That someone has to say "I believe in God" is just a response to those who question God's existence. Like "huh, what?" A rude interjection to what just seems normal.

Kind of like when you really have to get somewhere.
You just think I'm going now and you jump in the car and away you go.
But, you didn't consider the petrol would be low, so now you have to make a stop to put some gas in your car.
Then, finally, you might just have enough time to get to where you're going. Turn the key in your car and then it starts clicking over. "Huh, what?", you say before realising you've now got a flat battery.

Well, what you just naturally thought would be jumping in the car and driving has just been rudely interrupted.
You previously just were going to jump in the car and get to your destination on time, but now you have all these annoying hindrances questioning what you previously just naturally accepted.

Similarly, if there weren't Atheists, then I'd not have given another thought to God's lack of existence. But, now I'm faced with those who question God's existence which I find most natural to just accept and I'm forced into a position of what I must now believe. When really in my natural state I just accepted God's existence, it seems most logical, plain and intuitive without even thinking. Kind of like what we do in life really does matter, which often only becomes questioned by many when faced with existential questions or death.

What does you and RD both being too clever by one half add up to?

One half.

You said both.

If you hadnt said both, then it would two halves.

That was the point, I wanted to know if it added up to one, or to half man / half wit.

No, half man, half twit.

K is the half of a man. I'm the half(at least) twit.

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

B. W. wrote:In response to the other thread how about this:

Does anything attract you to Atheism?
-
-
-

Yep, for sure.
Moral ambiguity for one.
Being a well trained martial artist along with being a former high level military operative gives me a unique perspective on what I CAN do and what I OUGHT to do.
In short, IF I wanted to do what I wanted, very few people would be able to stop me, very few.
laws are a starting point not an end point and they exist to enforce a moral code.
No moral code and the only reason not to follow the laws is because you fear repercussions.
It is obvious how that point is moot for certain people.

There is also the appeal that I could, sexually, do whatever I wanted.

There is also the fact that, as an atheist, I wouldn't have to focus on anyone other than myself and I would NOT be a "slave" to any higher standard than the "acceptable one".

Now, that does NOT mean that as an atheist I WOULD do those things because, quite certainly, many atheists do NOT.

My point is that, as an atheist, there would be no reason NOT do other than, perhaps, fear of the law and repercussions from society ( which I could avoid very easily if I wanted to).

Perhaps if you'd grown up "godless" the way I did, you'd see how odd your perspective is.

Law and repercussions affect everyone. I, though, don't need carrot and stick to live up to my expectations for myself.

Irrelevant, since we are not talking about you and there is no objective or universal moral code.
You view is fine for you, but not relevant at all for me.
Sure the law affects everyone, just not to the same degree.
Besides, it is nothing but a fabrication of man trying to dominate man anyways.
I am not sheep and I don't follow others.
As one that believe sin nothing and is not subject to some irrelevant judeo-christian notion of "right and wrong", you view has no meaning for me.
Nor does anyone else's.
LIVE, DRINK and FIGHT for this is all we have and tomorrow we die !

I subscribe to the views of my fellow atheists like Mao and Stalin and Po and CEAUSESCU and Milsovec and Nietzsche and others.
The Ends justify the means.
I agree that :
those of us who “were free from sentimental inhibitions and prepared …to use violence in the building of a new, nobler world.”
And as Rand said:
“To live for his own sake means that the achievement of his own happiness is man’s highest moral purpose.”

And BARON D'HOLBACH:
"It would be useless and almost unjust to insist upon a man's being virtuous if he cannot be so without being unhappy. So long as vice renders him happy, he should love vice."

And the lack of this moral compass is ideal for making sure that a better generation arises, even if some inferiors may have to fall, as Peter Singer said:
"When the death of the disabled infant," writes Singer, "will lead to the birth of another infant with better prospects of a happy life, the total amount of happiness will be greater if the disabled infant is killed.
and:

"Human babies are not born self-aware or capable of grasping their lives over time. They are not persons. Hence their lives would seem to be no more worthy of protection that the life of a fetus."

and:
" We may not want a child to start on life's uncertain voyage if the prospects are clouded. When this can be known at a very early stage in the voyage, we may still have a chance to make a fresh start. This means detaching ourselves from the infant who has been born, cutting ourselves free before the ties that have already begun to bind us to our child have become irresistible. Instead of going forward and putting all our effort into making the best of the situation, we can still say no, and start again from the beginning."

PaulSacramento wrote:

Audie wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:

B. W. wrote:In response to the other thread how about this:

Does anything attract you to Atheism?
-
-
-

Yep, for sure.
Moral ambiguity for one.
Being a well trained martial artist along with being a former high level military operative gives me a unique perspective on what I CAN do and what I OUGHT to do.
In short, IF I wanted to do what I wanted, very few people would be able to stop me, very few.
laws are a starting point not an end point and they exist to enforce a moral code.
No moral code and the only reason not to follow the laws is because you fear repercussions.
It is obvious how that point is moot for certain people.

There is also the appeal that I could, sexually, do whatever I wanted.

There is also the fact that, as an atheist, I wouldn't have to focus on anyone other than myself and I would NOT be a "slave" to any higher standard than the "acceptable one".

Now, that does NOT mean that as an atheist I WOULD do those things because, quite certainly, many atheists do NOT.

My point is that, as an atheist, there would be no reason NOT do other than, perhaps, fear of the law and repercussions from society ( which I could avoid very easily if I wanted to).

Perhaps if you'd grown up "godless" the way I did, you'd see how odd your perspective is.

Law and repercussions affect everyone. I, though, don't need carrot and stick to live up to my expectations for myself.

Irrelevant, since we are not talking about you and there is no objective or universal moral code.
You view is fine for you, but not relevant at all for me.
Sure the law affects everyone, just not to the same degree.
Besides, it is nothing but a fabrication of man trying to dominate man anyways.
I am not sheep and I don't follow others.
As one that believe sin nothing and is not subject to some irrelevant judeo-christian notion of "right and wrong", you view has no meaning for me.
Nor does anyone else's.
LIVE, DRINK and FIGHT for this is all we have and tomorrow we die !

Oh, pardon me Handsome, I should have just said "irrlevant" as your post is only about you.