Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote: Wrong about what?

I'd figure you obtuse, but not over 170 degrees.
Possibly less.

To my knowledge, you've never stated your belief about what happens when you die. So how am I supposed to know what you're wrong about if I don't know what you believe?

Annihilation?
Reincarnation?
Nothing non-physical exists, so we just rot?
Death is not real, nor is life?

Audie my dear, I don't want to assume what you believe, that's why I ask.

I described a depiction of islamic hell, punishment for a sin i commit every day.

Then, "what if I am wrong". Why did you delete the context?

I dont, tho, think there is anything aftrr death.

Oh ok. Forgive me. I didn't realize the context was the Islamic hell you mentioned. I thought you mentioned that in jest.

Thanks for clarifying that you don't think there's anything after death.

Kinda like, once the body dies, that's it? Do you believe the human soul/mind, dies when the body dies?

As I said, I suppose it is the same as before I was born. Dead is dead; ashes, as they say, to ashes.
I guess it is sad, but there are so many terribly sad things

RickD wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

RickD wrote:This question is primarily for those here who consider themselves to be atheist or agnostic.

Do you fear your own death?

Do you fear the death of the ones you love?

Of course not.

Which is why I don't understand why people cry at funerals, especially if they are Christian. Concerning it is a high possibility (if (s)he was a Christian) the dead person is in heaven or is talking to God, I don't get it why would you be sad.

I hope this is sarcasm. Otherwise, well, nevermind. I just hope you're joking.

Only an uncaring dolt isn't sad when someone they love dies.

I don't know how to respond to this... Ever thought not everyone thinks the same as you do concerning a certain topic?

IceMobster wrote:

RickD wrote:This question is primarily for those here who consider themselves to be atheist or agnostic.

Do you fear your own death?

Do you fear the death of the ones you love?

Of course not.

Which is why I don't understand why people cry at funerals, especially if they are Christian. Concerning it is a high possibility (if (s)he was a Christian) the dead person is in heaven or is talking to God, I don't get it why would you be sad.

We mourn our loss, not theirs.

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
I'd figure you obtuse, but not over 170 degrees.
Possibly less.

To my knowledge, you've never stated your belief about what happens when you die. So how am I supposed to know what you're wrong about if I don't know what you believe?

Annihilation?
Reincarnation?
Nothing non-physical exists, so we just rot?
Death is not real, nor is life?

Audie my dear, I don't want to assume what you believe, that's why I ask.

I described a depiction of islamic hell, punishment for a sin i commit every day.

Then, "what if I am wrong". Why did you delete the context?

I dont, tho, think there is anything aftrr death.

Oh ok. Forgive me. I didn't realize the context was the Islamic hell you mentioned. I thought you mentioned that in jest.

Thanks for clarifying that you don't think there's anything after death.

Kinda like, once the body dies, that's it? Do you believe the human soul/mind, dies when the body dies?

As I said, I suppose it is the same as before I was born. Dead is dead; ashes, as they say, to ashes.
I guess it is sad, but there are so many terribly sad things

Doesnt have to be.

Storyteller wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote: To my knowledge, you've never stated your belief about what happens when you die. So how am I supposed to know what you're wrong about if I don't know what you believe?

Annihilation?
Reincarnation?
Nothing non-physical exists, so we just rot?
Death is not real, nor is life?

Audie my dear, I don't want to assume what you believe, that's why I ask.

I described a depiction of islamic hell, punishment for a sin i commit every day.

Then, "what if I am wrong". Why did you delete the context?

I dont, tho, think there is anything aftrr death.

Oh ok. Forgive me. I didn't realize the context was the Islamic hell you mentioned. I thought you mentioned that in jest.

Thanks for clarifying that you don't think there's anything after death.

Kinda like, once the body dies, that's it? Do you believe the human soul/mind, dies when the body dies?

As I said, I suppose it is the same as before I was born. Dead is dead; ashes, as they say, to ashes.
I guess it is sad, but there are so many terribly sad things

Doesnt have to be.

Its a nice thought. As long as it doesnt include that thing about hanging by your hair.

Audie wrote:

Storyteller wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
I described a depiction of islamic hell, punishment for a sin i commit every day.

Then, "what if I am wrong". Why did you delete the context?

I dont, tho, think there is anything aftrr death.

Oh ok. Forgive me. I didn't realize the context was the Islamic hell you mentioned. I thought you mentioned that in jest.

Thanks for clarifying that you don't think there's anything after death.

Kinda like, once the body dies, that's it? Do you believe the human soul/mind, dies when the body dies?

As I said, I suppose it is the same as before I was born. Dead is dead; ashes, as they say, to ashes.
I guess it is sad, but there are so many terribly sad things

Doesnt have to be.

Its a nice thought. As long as it doesnt include that thing about hanging by your hair.

Nope.
Its simple.
Trust.

IceMobster wrote:

RickD wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

RickD wrote:This question is primarily for those here who consider themselves to be atheist or agnostic.

Do you fear your own death?

Do you fear the death of the ones you love?

Of course not.

Which is why I don't understand why people cry at funerals, especially if they are Christian. Concerning it is a high possibility (if (s)he was a Christian) the dead person is in heaven or is talking to God, I don't get it why would you be sad.

I hope this is sarcasm. Otherwise, well, nevermind. I just hope you're joking.

Only an uncaring dolt isn't sad when someone they love dies.

I don't know how to respond to this... Ever thought not everyone thinks the same as you do concerning a certain topic?

Lemme get this straight...

You seriously don't understand why people, especially Christians, cry at funerals?

RiceLobster,

You're seriously challenging Kenny for the "obtuse award".

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:

RickD wrote:

Audie wrote:
I'd figure you obtuse, but not over 170 degrees.
Possibly less.

To my knowledge, you've never stated your belief about what happens when you die. So how am I supposed to know what you're wrong about if I don't know what you believe?

Annihilation?
Reincarnation?
Nothing non-physical exists, so we just rot?
Death is not real, nor is life?

Audie my dear, I don't want to assume what you believe, that's why I ask.

I described a depiction of islamic hell, punishment for a sin i commit every day.

Then, "what if I am wrong". Why did you delete the context?

I dont, tho, think there is anything aftrr death.

Oh ok. Forgive me. I didn't realize the context was the Islamic hell you mentioned. I thought you mentioned that in jest.

Thanks for clarifying that you don't think there's anything after death.

Kinda like, once the body dies, that's it? Do you believe the human soul/mind, dies when the body dies?

As I said, I suppose it is the same as before I was born. Dead is dead; ashes, as they say, to ashes.
I guess it is sad, but there are so many terribly sad things

Thanks Audie.

Rick,

As you said you were interested in the question kind of generally, here's a study that you might find helpful. The bottom line is that it suggests (and gives what strikes me as a plausible explanation of why) that religious people are more likely to fear death than non-religious.

Now, with that said--and the article does a good job of pointing out some of this--the question itself ("Do you fear death?") isn't very precisely worded. What most people fear isn't really death as much as it is either the pain or suffering associated with it or maybe more abstractly the end of their ability to enjoy the pleasures of life, having to leave others they love, etc. But as people get older, as they are in chronic pain, as their friends and family have died off, etc., then death doesn't have a lot to threaten them with anymore, and so all of that becomes less threatening! Still, you put a gun in anyone's face and threaten to pull the trigger and they're going to get scared. That's just what fear is. It is the brain's response to a threat. It's a biological response. But asking about some existential fear? I don't know that you are going to get very far. I've also read studies, by the way, that demonstrate I think rather well that such matters are highly influenced by what I might call your "death horizon." For instance, it's well known that older people tend to value relationships and quality time more than younger people, as they tend to value professional development and finding a sense of purpose in some activity. (And that's not to say, btw, that either group has a monopoly on either view . . . we're just talking about aggregate tendencies.) There have been lots of hypotheses to explain that, but one I found especially compelling (and supported by some studies) is that in moments of heightened awareness of one's own mortality, one's values become more personal and relational and less professional and activity-oriented. And the inverse also tends to be true. The less one is immediately aware of their own mortality, the more one's values are professional and activity-oriented and the less they become personal and relational. I, then, can think of several reasons why religious folk might have something like a smaller "death horizon" than a non-religious person. But, again, no subgroup of any kind has a monopoly on any of this.

Anyway, just some thoughts for you to consider, and if it matters to you at all, all of this is very much in line with what I've witnessed for the past four years in hospitals and nursing homes. I've literally sat at the bedsides of probably 10,000 people or more. I've spent over 5,000 hours in that kind of work and been with well over a hundred people as they died (and so certainly hundreds of family members as their loved ones left this world). My point is just that my anecdotal evidence lines up with what I've seen in the studies, so take that for whatever it is worth!

Absolutely concur with Jac on the relational/quality time vs. relentless personal and profession pursuits. As we get older, we realize that we're running out of time, whatever one believes about what comes next. Getting all that stuff, accomplishments, awards/rewards/recognition, envying the Joneses - the older one gets, the more they realize how pointless it is as to what most people are constantly chasing.

And I can see why non-Christians or anyone not seeing it to be wrong, or who don't believe there is anything after this life, so often take their own lives when things get exceptionally bleak. People think, "Why should I sit here and suffer without anything to look forward to, only awaiting the next terrible shoe to drop?" To have no hope that anything can get better (here or afterward), to not realize that there's something important about life and why we're here - to not believer that there is purpose, even in our suffering (even if we can't understand it) - I can understand why people end it all. Whatever unbelievers may disagree about with atheists, they must admit that we have immense hope that they do not. Of course, they would say that is delusional. But on some level, they surely must envy people who have hope, no matter their situations. In fact, I had a atheist tell me that, many years back.

RickD wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

RickD wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

RickD wrote:This question is primarily for those here who consider themselves to be atheist or agnostic.

Do you fear your own death?

Do you fear the death of the ones you love?

Of course not.

Which is why I don't understand why people cry at funerals, especially if they are Christian. Concerning it is a high possibility (if (s)he was a Christian) the dead person is in heaven or is talking to God, I don't get it why would you be sad.

I hope this is sarcasm. Otherwise, well, nevermind. I just hope you're joking.

Only an uncaring dolt isn't sad when someone they love dies.

I don't know how to respond to this... Ever thought not everyone thinks the same as you do concerning a certain topic?

Lemme get this straight...

You seriously don't understand why people, especially Christians, cry at funerals?

RiceLobster,

You're seriously challenging Kenny for the "obtuse award".

I understand it but I don't see sense in it. Nevertheless, the name is IceMobster, ****. Oh, sorry, RickD.

Who is the closest person to you who ever died, Ice?

IceMobster wrote:I don't know how to respond to this... Ever thought not everyone thinks the same as you do concerning a certain topic?

You're not obtuse because you see things differently than I do. That's not even what obtuse means. You're obtuse because grief at the loss of a loved one is a universal human sentiment but you somehow don't seem to understand that. Here, let me give you an example where your religion doesn't come into play. Maybe you'll have an easier time comprehending this "human emotion" thing that you're struggling to grasp...

Ok, so you have a best friend. You guys are inseparable. You love doing whatever it is you do together. But there's a problem - your buddy's dad is unemployed and they're in a tough financial position. But then his dad gets a great new job. Your friend's family is going to have more money, security, and opportunities, and their lives are going to improve. Not only that, but the new company is moving them to that awesome place that your friend always wanted to live, so he's thrilled. Everything is coming up roses for your buddy. His life is getting objectively better across the board. The only downside is that you guys won't get to hang out anymore.

So are you going to feel sad that he's leaving? If so, why?

RickD wrote:This question is primarily for those here who consider themselves to be atheist or agnostic.

Do you fear your own death?

Do you fear the death of the ones you love?

I do not fear my own death per say, as Jac3510 has so eloquently put.
It saddens me that those closest to me will experience loss and pain. But the magnitude of this will pass.
I fear the pain of a prolonged death.
I contemplate my death daily, so I don't lose sight of what truly maters.

I do fear the death of those I love. It is my greatest fear.
I want to leave the world having contributed what I value most in the world. And that is moments of beauty, compassion, and unconditional love.

Death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VmdwtUUafk