Evidence for God from Science

Philip wrote:Rick, I've never heard of a brown widow - don't you mean Brown Recluse? Which I have never encountered, but know they are bad news. They cause the type of bites that the flesh around the bite just disintegrates. Black widows are very common, but I don't know that I've ever had one in the house. Garage and yard, yes. I worry more about copperhead snakes - all over my woods.

I'd never heard of a brown widow either, until I started killing a few. I asked some "locals", and they said it's basically the same as a black widow, except it's brown. Same hourglass on belly, same egg sac, same web. Apparently the bite of a brown widow, isn't as bad as a black widow.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latrodectus_geometricus

And as for the brown recluse, I still haven't seen any.

This is more like what I saw:
http://m.wikihow.com/Identify-a-Brown-Widow-Spider
According to this link, brown widows are timid, and usually don't bite humans.

Now I feel horrible. GOD FORGIVE ME!!!

Omg,

The remorse is literally killing me. I'm going to confession tonight.

It has just dawned on me with a horrible weight, that by killing those 50 or so timid brown widows, I may have committed the unpardonable sin.

I am overwhelmed with sorrow!

RickD wrote:Omg,

The remorse is literally killing me. I'm going to confession tonight.

It has just dawned on me with a horrible weight, that by killing those 50 or so timid brown widows, I may have committed the unpardonable sin.

I am overwhelmed with sorrow!

What a jerk. Kurieuo posts a serious topic, and you mock it?

What kind of a person are you?

See what happens when Nessa isn't around in mini chat for me to talk to? I've resorted to quoting myself, just to have someone to talk to.

If it's any consolation, you were likely putting those brown "widows" out of the misery of losing their husbands.

Re: this topic though, I'm not really joking. The issues I am getting at has caused many falling outs in Christ's church one a Christian being told they're not really Christian, that they're unscriptural or don't believe in the Gospel or what-have-you.

My wife's natural sentiments of saying sorry to the spider and God, made me wonder whether YECs naturally think the same thing when they feel bad about unnecessarily killing one of "God's" distorted creatures. Given they believe the Fall corrupted God's perfectly good creation.

If God didn't create spiders as they are, we're not really killing God's creatures but rather something which ultimately Satan and our sin had a hand in bringing about. In which case, we should really be killing as many of the damn buggers as possible. Right?

• If one believes what the Scriptures teach, then one should believe that a change took place, or at least began, at the Fall of Adam. If God completed His creation according to His purpose, then one must acknowledge that God designed creation to eat vegetation, with a change taking place in the creation sometime later.
  (https://answersingenesis.org/animal-beh ... -the-fall/)

Although Sin ruining God's creation was the main position I came into contact with growing up, which is very Augustian in flavour for explaining why evil, pain and suffering exists in the world... Many YECs do believe God "re-programmed" and/or "re-shaped" animals and the like after the fall so that diseases and carnivores now existed.

Nonetheless, if Satan's deception led to God needing to ruin His own perfectly good creation, then Satan is the orchestrator. Satan pulled God's strings, to make God ruin His own perfectly good creation. Which then led to spiders being the little biters that they are.

Let me say now, if God really intended a perfectly good creation, with no death, non-carnivorous creatures and a disease-free world, that nothing could have frustrated God's desire for such. Not Satan, not sin, not humanity. Satan (a mere creature) could never pull God's strings to manipulate Him into doing something. This means God is actually the orchestrator, God used Satan, sin and the like all as part of His plan.

This kind of turns the Augustinian response to evil (watch YouTube video) on its head. That is, I concede that our free will is responsible for much evil into the world, and that such is required if true love is to exist (since love required freedom to choose). If however the YEC view of the Fall corrupting creation is correct, Satan being aware of the consequences of sin being death would have known that deceiving humanity would force God's hand to install death. This places Satan above God, in this respect Satan is manipulating God's rules against Himself.

No! I can't really accept that picture. Unless one concedes Satan has some power over God, God planned for everything that happened to happen. God is responsible not just in action but also intention for spiders being little biters. God used Satan, allowed him to approach mankind and deceive us. God's good creation wasn't destroyed, but everything altogether is as it was always intended by God.

God not simply allows evil, pain and suffering in the world but allows and intends it for a purpose. All the biting little creatures, pain, death and suffering is something God intended for our world. It is God that allows Satan his time here, to tempt, test and destroy all according to the bigger picture that God has. So then, unless we say God isn't in full control, we must seek to understand this bigger picture.

Oh, and on the meds. You really don't want to see what I'm like when I take my meds.

I don't, but it has nothing to do with YEC/OEC. Animals of all kinds are here to serve mankind, not vice-versa. We can use them as we like for our pleasure. That's why we can eat them, put them down, keep them as pets, put them in zoos, etc. Our obligation not to be cruel certainly exists, but that's more to do with our own nature than with the dignity of animals in and of themselves.

Now, if I'm killing a spider for no other reason than to be cruel, then I've done something wrong. Again, not because the spider has any dignity, but because I ought not be cruel. But if the spider is in my living room and I don't want to take a chance on him getting on one of my kids or scaring them, then killing it is perfectly justified.

Jac3510 wrote:I don't, but it has nothing to do with YEC/OEC. Animals of all kinds are here to serve mankind, not vice-versa. We can use them as we like for our pleasure.

Jac I thought you'd know better!
I believe there was a law against that, which Kiwis are still yet to understand.
Ahh, here it is: Leviticus 18:23

Certainly interested in your take on my last big post though.

Kurieuo wrote:

Jac3510 wrote:I don't, but it has nothing to do with YEC/OEC. Animals of all kinds are here to serve mankind, not vice-versa. We can use them as we like for our pleasure.

Jac I thought you'd know better!
I believe there was a law against that, which Kiwis are still yet to understand.
Ahh, here it is: Leviticus 18:23

Well we all know the OT doesn't apply anymore . . .

Certainly interested in your take on my last post though.

Post a vid of you on meds. It should be good for a laugh. Maybe could start a trend.

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Seriously, I don't agree with this:

• If God didn't create spiders as they are, we're not really killing God's creatures but rather something which ultimately Satan and our sin had a hand in bringing about. In which case, we should really be killing as many of the damn buggers as possible. Right?

I'd say no. Spiders are acting exactly like they were programmed to act from the beginning of creation. I argued somewhere in the Carnivorous Animals thread (I think? That was a LONG time ago) that good designers build in backup systems. Makes perfect sense to me that God, knowing the world would fall, built backup systems into the world. Claws that were once used to tear bark can now tear flesh, and so on. In other words, imagine that spiders are now operating in another mode. The mode is part of the design. It isn't "intended" in the sense that it is operating so in light of certain deficiencies. But it's part of the original design all the same.

So we ought not be killing as many as we can, because that will have a harmful effect on the rest of the ecological system. And the command in Gen 1 to take care of the earth still applies. Just because the world is fallen, it doesn't mean we don't have to take care of it. But now, part of taking care of it means taking into account how it operates given the presence of sin (or, to use the above analogy, given its current operating mode). We should, then, do what is necessary to do to. If that includes killing a spider in my living room, then that's what I do. No hard feelings . . .

My wife makes me kill spiders - its her fault
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New Topic:

Why women can't kill spiders...

Err... I told my wife to kill the spider when it twitched so what's that say about me?

I did try though, was the one who largely killed. She just finished the job.
That's got to count for some manliness right?