Evidence for God from Science

Creator of all reality, and sustained of the Universe. Created it solely for one tiny otherwise insignificant speck of dust orbiting around a generic unremarkable burning ball of hydrogen and helium. Created it good enough to last for trillions of years until Heat Death, but intentionally imperfect due to eventual proton decay and black hole evaporation.

Will create a second, and more permanent Universe, presumably sometime after Heat Death, (or even beyond all of reality as we know it as a multiverse, and therefore not bound to space-time), for those who lived life error (sin) free. Eventually had to come down in a form we all resembled with (Jesus) and used him to permanently have a way to have people admit error, and be forgiven for it, due to humanity as a whole being inherently evil, starting with the earliest humans rebelling against God, as a consequence of free will.

IceMobster wrote:Btw, I disagree with Thomas on him stating that the idea of the existence of God comes "a posteriori" as opposed to "a priori". I am more on Plato's side here. The idea of the existence of God is inherent in every human being.

Nihil est in intellectu quin prius fuerit in sensu

Saviour

Jac3510 wrote:Nihil est in intellectu quin prius fuerit in sensu

But this doesn't deny the:

IceMobster wrote:The idea of the existence of God is inherent in every human being.

Of course it does. If all knowledge must come through the senses, then there is no such thing as inherent knowledge of anything, including inherent knowledge of the idea of God.

Jac3510 wrote:Nihil est in intellectu quin prius fuerit in sensu

Jac3510 wrote:Of course it does. If all knowledge must come through the senses, then there is no such thing as inherent knowledge of anything, including inherent knowledge of the idea of God.

Does this empirical approach not deny metaphysical cognition? Meaning you can not talk about God if you do not have empirical basis, right? Well, I did not experience God or His existence or whatever, yet I believe He exists. How is that?

Another question: If the notion of God's existence is not congenital, how do people get the notion of God's existence? I really do not understand it. How did people before Christianity know there is something greater than them?

IceMobster wrote:Does this empirical approach not deny metaphysical cognition? Meaning you can not talk about God if you do not have empirical basis, right?

God-talk is a difficult subject in and of itself. Strictly speaking, we cannot talk about God directly. There is an important idea that says that all language about God is analogical. That is, there can be no univocal language describing both us and God. I don't think I need to explain that further as you seem to grasp how it follows from empirical realism. I would only add here that this does not make our talk of God meaningless anymore than this picture is meaningless:



Now, I'm sure you know that atoms aren't really like that. That picture is an analogy, a picture, a representation of the atom. But that, again, doesn't make the picture meaningless. And so it is with God.

Well, I did not experience God or His existence or whatever, yet I believe He exists. How is that?

I don't know because I don't know you. Could have been lots of ways. Could be that someone you know or love or respected told you He does. Could be someone you don't like told you He doesn't. Could be that you went through a formal reasoning process and made the best inference you could from the evidence you had. Could just be that you're in a culture of people who believe in God and there wasn't a real reason to question it. Could be that you didn't formally go through a reasoning process but did so "automatically" or informally, such that the idea of God "just makes sense." Like I said, could be a million reasons. But none of them include the idea that you just knew it. No one just knows anything.

Another question: If the notion of God's existence is not congenital, how do people get the notion of God's existence? I really do not understand it. How did people before Christianity know there is something greater than them?

Again, I can think of lots of ways. Prior to Christianity, people look at the sun, moon, and stars and say, "How did that get here?" And the conclude God did it. More psychologically, human beings become aware of authority at a very, very early age. So if Dad is my boss, and the king is my boss, well then the idea of an ultimate authority "just makes sense." As a hospital chaplain, I can also tell you that human beings have certain innate needs we call "spiritual" needs, and these relate to meaning and purpose. There is a fear of death, and desire to continue on after we die. Humans are social creatures by nature social creatures, which means that we feel lonely and even fear loneliness. All of that means we seek relationships--and preferably lasting relationships--with people to fill those needs. But people and the relationships they bring are temporary, so the idea of God seems like an obvious move. But more than that, entire cultures and religions are built around those needs, and where you get religion you tend to get holy men, and from there you tend to get God. And, of course, if God really exists (as I say He does), and if He has revealed Himself to mankind from the earliest days (as I say He did), then the knowledge of God passed down from generation to generation would be a powerful source of knowledge. Again, lots of things.

Jac3510 wrote:Prior to Christianity, people look at the sun, moon, and stars and say, "How did that get here?" And the conclude God did it.

How do they conclude God did it if they hadn't had prior (innate) knowledge of God?

Inference to best explanation (either formally or informally)

edit:

You do realize that your logic would make all science impossible, right? If we have to know something, even if innately, before we can posit it as the cause of something, then it would be impossible to explore and learn about the causes of effects we don't understand (which is to say, to do science).

FYI: Here is what I dug up on God (biblical and other).... (edit: I'll add more as I find them)

(bible)
(i) God is the creator [Bible]
(ii) God created us in his own image [Bible].
(iii) Grace is also an attribute of God (Ex. 34:6; 22:27; Joel 2:13; Jonah 4:2) [1]
(iv) God is not a respecter of persons. (Rom 2:11; )
(v) God is not biased. (Eph 6:9)
(vi) God has no partiality. (Deut 10:17, Job 34:19, Acts 10:34)
(vii) God is Good (Mark 10:18)
(viii) God is the lawgiver and judge (James 4:2, Isaiah 33:22,see 76 other versus http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/God,-As-Judge)
(ix) God is Love (John 4:8)
(x) God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit (John 5:7)
(xi) God is perfect (Matt 5:48)
(xii) God is Fair and Just and the Justifier (Psalm 25:8-14, Rom 3:25-26)
(xiii) God is Eternal (Psalm 90:2; 1 Tim. 1:17)
(xiv) God is Unchanging (Mal.3:6; James 1:17; Heb. 6:17)
(xv) God is everywhere present (Jer. 23:24; Psa. 139:7-10; 1 Kings 8:27)
(xvi) God is all knowing (John 3:20; Psa.147:5; Heb.4:13)
(xvii) God is wrathful (Exodus 15:7)
(xviii) God is Truthful (Titus 1:2)
(xix) God does not sin (Hebrews 6:18)
(xx) God does not change ( James 1:17)

(theology)
(i) God is beyond the grasp of human reason (St. Spyridon)
(ii) God's greatest gift to man is life
(iii) God's greatest gift to man is love
(iv) God's greatest gift to man is reason
(v) God's greatest gift to man is to have a child ( - Little Hamster)
(vi) God's greatest gift to man is eternal life in heaven
(vii) God is Holy
(viii) God is impassible
(ix) God is Infinite
(x) God is all-powerful
(xi) God is all wise
(xii) God is simple
(xiii) God is self-existent
(xiv) God is merciful
(xv) God is jealous
(xvi) God is freedom

(mysticism)
(i) God is the 'First Cause'
(ii) God has a 'will-pleasure' (not a desire) to express Itself in Itself as Creation i.e., to manifest his total wisdom, total love and total almightyness everywhere [ref]
(iii) God is the everlasting life/light [ref].
(iv) God has Manifested himself within himself. [ref]
(v) God is Absolute Beingness
(vi) God is Omnipresence, Multiplicity (as an infinite number of Holy Monads) and Self-sufficiency
(vii) God as Absolute Beingness, manifests itself as the Logos and the Holy Spirit, 'and these three are one'.





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