Evidence for God from Science

I often think of how a person's lineage comes about. Everyone has 4 grandparents, with each of them having two parents - thus giving everyone 8 great grands, 16 great-great grands, and 32 great-great-great grands. You take any one of those 32, just several generations back, and at least one of your parents and YOU would never have existed!

Philip wrote:I often think of how a person's lineage comes about. Everyone has 4 grandparents, with each of them having two parents - thus giving everyone 8 great grands, 16 great-great grands, and 32 great-great-great grands. You take any one of those 32, just several generations back, and at least one of your parents and YOU would never have existed!

Each person begins with with a specific sperm and a specific egg. If either of those don't meet, then that person never exists.

It's actually quite amazing when I think of it that way.

ultimate777 wrote:.

I suppose you should change the name from Hitler to Stalin since the soviet union alone killed ~25 million Christians (so, this is the count of just Christians and not members of other religion or atheists...) and destroyed around 21 000 churches.

Makes you wonder why svastika is censored and the symbol for the other regime is not. Winners write history, yeah...

Anyway, I would not do that. It happened for a reason, even though it isn't clear to us what that reason is.
Plus, you can't decide who goes to heaven or hell, only God does that. Which makes the whole thing kinda redundant.
It's the same with the hypothetical situation in which you could choose between saving one of the two of your children. You don't know what you would do. You have to be in that situation to see what you would do.

Anyway, what would you do?

RickD wrote:Why would killing Hitler be a reason to go to hell? People don't go to hell because they murder someone, or because of any other sin they commit. People go to hell because they don't have eternal life. And they don't have eternal life because they don't trust Christ for salvation.

If you're going to make a meaningless hypothetical which changes how/why someone goes to hell, I think you need to explain why in your hypothetical world, murder sends someone to hell.

In other words, you're changing the rules, without telling what the rules in your hypothetical are.

Did you just say that it matters not if someone murders around because (s)he still goes to heaven just because (s)he believes in Christ?

IceMobster wrote:
Did you just say that it matters not if someone murders around because (s)he still goes to heaven just because (s)he believes in Christ?

No. I didn't say that. Of course it matters if people murder other people. But murder is not an unforgivable sin.

Again...Christ's sacrifice atoned for the sins of the world. All of them.
1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

People don't go to hell because they sinned. Christ's sacrifice atoned for all sin. People go to hell because they don't have eternal life. And they don't have eternal life, because they don't trust Christ for salvation.

ultimate777 wrote:I think there can be great value in impossible hypothetical questions. I think they can help you decide what is really most important to yourself and to others. They can help stimulate your mind so it can help you in more "practical" things.
How one responds to hypothetical questions can tell volumes about one's character. Especially if someone tries to change the hypotheticals.

But I could be all wrong, its happened before. What do you think?

Anyhow here is one for you, also:

Suppose you could go back in time to just before the war and kill Hitler, but you would go to Hell when you die, otherwise
you go to heaven for sure if you just stay here?

I would say it depends on what kind of evidence you had against Hitler before he did what he did.There were people warning about Hitler before he acted out like he did,but the majority did not seem to believe it until it was too late. But if you had good evidence against Hitler it would not be wrong to take him out before he did what he did. In the bible it is not necessarily a sin to kill,it is a sin to murder and there is a difference.

The question kinda reminds me of this movie...

Nessa wrote:The question kinda reminds me of this movie...

That's exactly what I was thinking of too. I knew it was a Tom Cruze movie. But I just didn't know the name.

Nessa wrote:The question kinda reminds me of this movie...

Is it worth to watch it?
Considering not just the endings but the whole movie. You know, stuff like protagonist survives situations (s)he is not supposed to or goes 1v23423562432134 and wins...

IceMobster wrote:Nevertheless, I hate even more when the movie has an unrealistic (in most cases, happy) ending. You know, the usual hollywood cliche (or rather, bulls###).

IceMobster wrote:

Nessa wrote:The question kinda reminds me of this movie...

Is it worth to watch it?
Considering not just the endings but the whole movie. You know, stuff like protagonist survives situations (s)he is not supposed to or goes 1v23423562432134 and wins...

IceMobster wrote:Nevertheless, I hate even more when the movie has an unrealistic (in most cases, happy) ending. You know, the usual hollywood cliche (or rather, bulls###).

I can't actually remember how it actually ends but I know I wanna see it again. I really liked the movie tho.

So ending was probably ok-ish - at least for me - cos usually I dont forget bad endings..

Rick might remember the ending though?

Nessa wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

Nessa wrote:The question kinda reminds me of this movie...

Is it worth to watch it?
Considering not just the endings but the whole movie. You know, stuff like protagonist survives situations (s)he is not supposed to or goes 1v23423562432134 and wins...

IceMobster wrote:Nevertheless, I hate even more when the movie has an unrealistic (in most cases, happy) ending. You know, the usual hollywood cliche (or rather, bulls###).

I can't actually remember how it actually ends but I know I wanna see it again. I really like it.

So ending was probably ok-ish at least for me.

Rick might remember though?

You expect Rick to remember? Ehehehehe, that's a good one.

IceMobster wrote:

Nessa wrote:

IceMobster wrote:

Nessa wrote:The question kinda reminds me of this movie...

Is it worth to watch it?
Considering not just the endings but the whole movie. You know, stuff like protagonist survives situations (s)he is not supposed to or goes 1v23423562432134 and wins...

IceMobster wrote:Nevertheless, I hate even more when the movie has an unrealistic (in most cases, happy) ending. You know, the usual hollywood cliche (or rather, bulls###).

I can't actually remember how it actually ends but I know I wanna see it again. I really like it.

So ending was probably ok-ish at least for me.

Rick might remember though?

You expect Rick to remember? Ehehehehe, that's a good one.

Good point!

Remember what? What are we talking about?


Actually,

I never saw the movie. But I do remember seeing the trailer on tv.

There are Lots of things that are sins -- murder / lying / adultery -- but, it's rejecting God's provision to take care of our sinfulness that sends a person to hell. Other wise everyone of us would end up in hell. That is the penalty For sinning.
BUT -- accepting Jesus Christ as personal Savior keeps the individual out of hell and Allows them to be in heaven.
Another question Could be -- If a person murders repeatedly -- a serial murderer. Will that person enter heaven. Even if they profess to be saved. That is The question. And That would be answered -- there would be a Big reason to question their salvation Because their life does not reflect Christ-like activities / attitudes. SO - a concerned person Should approach the person in a loving, caring manner and ask them about their salvation experience. And it Could be that the person hasn't actually accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior. And in That case - provided they understand that what they've done Is wrong and Want to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior - by all means encourage them to do that. And Then, there Should be evidence of that decision was really made. Their actions / attitudes.
So -- I'm agreeing with RickD.

RickD wrote:

Philip wrote:I often think of how a person's lineage comes about. Everyone has 4 grandparents, with each of them having two parents - thus giving everyone 8 great grands, 16 great-great grands, and 32 great-great-great grands. You take any one of those 32, just several generations back, and at least one of your parents and YOU would never have existed!

Each person begins with with a specific sperm and a specific egg. If either of those don't meet, then that person never exists.

It's actually quite amazing when I think of it that way.

I bet I have thought about that more than you have

IceMobster wrote:

ultimate777 wrote:.

I suppose you should change the name from Hitler to Stalin since the soviet union alone killed ~25 million Christians (so, this is the count of just Christians and not members of other religion or atheists...) and destroyed around 21 000 churches.

Makes you wonder why svastika is censored and the symbol for the other regime is not. Winners write history, yeah...

Anyway, I would not do that. It happened for a reason, even though it isn't clear to us what that reason is.
Plus, you can't decide who goes to heaven or hell, only God does that. Which makes the whole thing kinda redundant.
It's the same with the hypothetical situation in which you could choose between saving one of the two of your children. You don't know what you would do. You have to be in that situation to see what you would do.

Anyway, what would you do?

RickD wrote:Why would killing Hitler be a reason to go to hell? People don't go to hell because they murder someone, or because of any other sin they commit. People go to hell because they don't have eternal life. And they don't have eternal life because they don't trust Christ for salvation.

If you're going to make a meaningless hypothetical which changes how/why someone goes to hell, I think you need to explain why in your hypothetical world, murder sends someone to hell.

In other words, you're changing the rules, without telling what the rules in your hypothetical are.

Did you just say that it matters not if someone murders around because (s)he still goes to heaven just because (s)he believes in Christ?

As the OP, to me its a no brainer, nothing, absolutely nothing, (am I clear?) is worth me going to hell. I hope others can avoid messing
around and get down to answering the question