Why I never became an atheist.

Healthy skepticism of ALL worldviews is good. Skeptical of non-belief like found in Atheism? Post your challenging questions. Responses are encouraged.
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RickD
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by RickD »

IceMobster wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:

God-believers MUST believe that a God greater and more complex than the universe.. oh never mind.
Not true. God is not complex. I challenge you to read Jac's Divine Simplicity book. But you'll probably decline. Stating some excuse about this or that.

Give it a read. You might open yourself up to the truth. What are you afraid of Audie?
Wait wait wait wait wait, whole this time I was reading a book written by Jac????? Or is he just the guy who found it and shared it first?
Both. Jac wrote it, and shared it. :mrgreen:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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IceMobster
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by IceMobster »

RickD wrote:
IceMobster wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:

God-believers MUST believe that a God greater and more complex than the universe.. oh never mind.
Not true. God is not complex. I challenge you to read Jac's Divine Simplicity book. But you'll probably decline. Stating some excuse about this or that.

Give it a read. You might open yourself up to the truth. What are you afraid of Audie?
Wait wait wait wait wait, whole this time I was reading a book written by Jac????? Or is he just the guy who found it and shared it first?
Both. Jac wrote it, and shared it. :mrgreen:
Daaaaaaaaaamn, son. That means I can give feedback to the author right now. :mrgreen:
Anyway, good thing you did not forget that, Rick. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for You are with me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGOXMf6yDCU

Fecisti nos ad te, Domine, et inquietum est cor nostrum donec requiescat in te!
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RickD
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by RickD »

IceMobster wrote:
RickD wrote:
IceMobster wrote:
RickD wrote:
Audie wrote:

God-believers MUST believe that a God greater and more complex than the universe.. oh never mind.
Not true. God is not complex. I challenge you to read Jac's Divine Simplicity book. But you'll probably decline. Stating some excuse about this or that.

Give it a read. You might open yourself up to the truth. What are you afraid of Audie?
Wait wait wait wait wait, whole this time I was reading a book written by Jac????? Or is he just the guy who found it and shared it first?
Both. Jac wrote it, and shared it. :mrgreen:
Daaaaaaaaaamn, son. That means I can give feedback to the author right now. :mrgreen:
Anyway, good thing you did not forget that, Rick. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Forget what? :sleep:
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Kenny
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by Kenny »

Philip wrote:
Would it be fair to say your stint as an atheist was mostly the result of a teenager rebelling against what his parents taught him?

Ken
What I can't understand about atheism isn't when people can't see reasons or evidences that might help them to belief. It's when they are very hostile to ALL views to the contrary, and when they expend so much energy upon resisting all possible evidences that could support belief.
I can see where you are coming from. I think when someone invests a large portion of their lives in something they are passionate about, and someone else presents evidence that threatens this passionate belief, a natural reaction is often to defend the belief at all costs, and emotions often get riled in the process. I see this on either side of the theistic debate and not just theistic but political as well. Hence the old warning; discuss anything except religion and politics.

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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RickD
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by RickD »

Kenny wrote:
Philip wrote:
Would it be fair to say your stint as an atheist was mostly the result of a teenager rebelling against what his parents taught him?

Ken
What I can't understand about atheism isn't when people can't see reasons or evidences that might help them to belief. It's when they are very hostile to ALL views to the contrary, and when they expend so much energy upon resisting all possible evidences that could support belief.
I can see where you are coming from. I think when someone invests a large portion of their lives in something they are passionate about, and someone else presents evidence that threatens this passionate belief, a natural reaction is often to defend the belief at all costs, and emotions often get riled in the process. I see this on either side of the theistic debate and not just theistic but political as well. Hence the old warning; discuss anything except religion and politics.

Ken
Kenny,

That actually makes some sense. But I have to ask why a lifelong atheist would invest a large portion of his life being passionate about something(God) that he believes doesn't exist?
John 5:24
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.


“A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.”
-Edward R Murrow



St. Richard the Sarcastic--The Patron Saint of Irony
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Philip
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by Philip »

Rick: Kenny, That actually makes some sense. But I have to ask why a lifelong atheist would invest a large portion of his life being passionate about something(God) that he believes doesn't exist?
I tend to agree. Once one feels he has redundantly kicked the tires, investigated and absorbed as much information, pro and con, for God's existence, and they come to the conclusion "No one's home!" - well why not move on. I'm thinking, if I don't believe Zeus exists - he's a figment of myth writers' imaginations, I can for the life of me imagine being obsessed with debating whether his existence makes sense. UNLESS, I really wasn't totally convinced I am right, that Zeus, at least, MIGHT exist. And so my debating might well be more to convince myself that my understandings are superior to those in the cult of Zeus. Now, I don't know what the asserted repercussions were supposed to be for denying Zeus, but if there had been serious supposed repercussions, I can well imagine wanting to convince myself that my unbelief in Zeus was nothing to worry about. So, some here, debating Christianity for so long, may well be doing so because of the assertions of Scripture, as to the terrible consequences of unbelief. This would be a kind of certainty that might make me linger, to cause me to debate more passionately. It's either that or some just love the constant challenges (and frustrations) of continuous theistic sparring.
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by edwardmurphy »

I can't speak for anyone else, an I wouldn't say I invest a large portion of my life to this discussion, but I have a thought or two.

First off, I suspect that a lot of you are utterly baffled that atheists even exist. Believe it or not, I kind of feel the same way about religious people. Coming here is a bit like visiting a foreign country or something. I'm frequently stunned by how alien some of the views expressed are to my way of seeing the world. It makes me think of this Dave Chapelle bit (it's at about 2:04, and bear in mind that there's a bit of salty language).

Second, when you live in a country where the majority think god is real and religion matters you often find yourself dealing with social norms, customs, ad laws that have arisen from that belief. Sometimes that's a pain in the butt, and being inconvenienced by mythology sometimes makes me want to push back a bit.

Third, currently religion and politics are so intertwined in the US that you really can't isolate one from the other.

Anyway, those are some thoughts. Not real focused, but there it is.
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by Kenny »

Philip wrote:
Rick: Kenny, That actually makes some sense. But I have to ask why a lifelong atheist would invest a large portion of his life being passionate about something(God) that he believes doesn't exist?
I tend to agree. Once one feels he has redundantly kicked the tires, investigated and absorbed as much information, pro and con, for God's existence, and they come to the conclusion "No one's home!" - well why not move on. I'm thinking, if I don't believe Zeus exists - he's a figment of myth writers' imaginations, I can for the life of me imagine being obsessed with debating whether his existence makes sense.
Supposed you lived in a country where 95% of the people believed in Zeus?
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by Philip »

Supposed you lived in a country where 95% of the people believed in Zeus?
Well, if I'd come to a conclusion that Zeus wasn't real, the percentage wouldn't matter - other than - if they were pushy or threatening as to how their belief made them treat unbelievers - well, I wouldn't like that. But anywhere I am a minority, as long as I am treated well - I don't expect others to conform to my own sensibilities (when in Rome, etc.). But let me add - I would STILL believe in SOME god or God, because I think it is irrational to not believe that some super intelligence and power must be responsible for all that instantly sprang into existence. Now, I might not conclude that entity is a personal god or God. I'd need considerable validating info for that. If I didn't have enough information to believe that Jesus/Yahweh/The Holy Spirit is God, I STILL would believe that some god or God surely must exist - for many of the same reasons. But I also would have no pre-conceived notions of what such a God or god would be like. Why would I think ANY god would have to live up to my expectations of what he should be like? I would realize that whatever the truth is of god or God, I sure wouldn't expect him (or Him) to live up to my expectations - whether I hoped for a loving God or not. As people run the gamut of personalities and traits, I'd think any gods or God might be different than what I expect or like. I'd realize, IF He or he exists, what I think about Him/him, whether accurate or not, would be irrelevant - at least as far as whatever His reality turned out to be. I'd realize, He is whatever He is. And He is!
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by Kenny »

Philip wrote:
Supposed you lived in a country where 95% of the people believed in Zeus?
Well, if I'd come to a conclusion that Zeus wasn't real, the percentage wouldn't matter - other than - if they were pushy or threatening as to how their belief made them treat unbelievers - well, I wouldn't like that.
So if their beliefs caused them to treat you in a way that you felt was unfair you would voice an objection or at least an opposing point of view?

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by abelcainsbrother »

Kenny wrote:
Philip wrote:
Supposed you lived in a country where 95% of the people believed in Zeus?
Well, if I'd come to a conclusion that Zeus wasn't real, the percentage wouldn't matter - other than - if they were pushy or threatening as to how their belief made them treat unbelievers - well, I wouldn't like that.
So if their beliefs caused them to treat you in a way that you felt was unfair you would voice an objection or at least an opposing point of view?

Ken
Meshach. For you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH-jSiR-RHc
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by Kenny »

abelcainsbrother wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Philip wrote:
Supposed you lived in a country where 95% of the people believed in Zeus?
Well, if I'd come to a conclusion that Zeus wasn't real, the percentage wouldn't matter - other than - if they were pushy or threatening as to how their belief made them treat unbelievers - well, I wouldn't like that.
So if their beliefs caused them to treat you in a way that you felt was unfair you would voice an objection or at least an opposing point of view?

Ken
Meshach. For you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH-jSiR-RHc
That song was so gay; I'm actually embarrassed for the singers.

Ken
RickD wrote
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
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abelcainsbrother
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by abelcainsbrother »

Kenny wrote:
abelcainsbrother wrote:
Kenny wrote:
Philip wrote:
Supposed you lived in a country where 95% of the people believed in Zeus?
Well, if I'd come to a conclusion that Zeus wasn't real, the percentage wouldn't matter - other than - if they were pushy or threatening as to how their belief made them treat unbelievers - well, I wouldn't like that.
So if their beliefs caused them to treat you in a way that you felt was unfair you would voice an objection or at least an opposing point of view?

Ken
Meshach. For you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH-jSiR-RHc
That song was so gay; I'm actually embarrassed for the singers.

Ken
It is a parody of Love shack by the B 52's.But the jews are people that lived in other cultures and countries that believed in other god's and yet have retained their religion Judaism for thousands of years. I actually believe the jewish people are evidence God is real and true based on what the jews have went through throughout history. For thousands of years they lived under different rulers that had conquered Israel and then they eventually dispersed throughout the world and yet they are still here.
Hebrews 12:2-3 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,despising the shame,and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

2nd Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,lest the light of this glorious gospel of Christ,who is the image of God,should shine unto them.
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by Mallz »

Weird how you guys can use "philosophy' to find out so much about something that cannot be detected or demonstrated to exist at all.
Not true at all. Take off the blinders. See the thread about babies, or the one about prayer started (and not continued by) IceMobster. At this point in my life, I'm either living truly, or am a schizophrenic (without the hallucinations). And, unfortunately for others, He is apparent in my life and how He affects it and others in it. It's no longer possible for me to sanely deny Him and that He is real. And I'm a more than fully functioning RN renovating a house I own with no shortage of a variety of friends (despite what some may try to gather about me here).
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Re: Why I never became an atheist.

Post by PaulSacramento »

The comparison between God and "other Gods" is done when people don't fully understand the Christian concept of God.
The Christian understanding of WHAT and WHO God is means that God MUST exist because if He didn't, nothing would exist.
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