Evidence for God from Science

Philip wrote:

RickD wrote: With that said, do you mind if I ask God to reveal Himself to you, in a way that you can understand?

Audie: Any time.

For that understanding to become reality, one must, at the very least, sincerely WANT to know the truth about it. IF a person has the attitude and level of resistance to the truth, that NO level of evidence is sufficient, that NO calculated improbability will ever be allowed to dissuade their belief, or if they strongly desire to remain an unbeliever out of anger at the world, others, or whatever perceived unfairness about the world as it is NOW (yes, MAN has made this world a hell for many), or even from just a simple desire to remain their own little god (the only person they will ever be willing to submit to), then they'll not find or perceive of His existence or relevance. But being WILLING and also DESIRING the truth can change everything - even in people not necessarily seeking it.

Your comments are So Very true. Desiring the truth / being willing to Hear the truth.

crochet1949 wrote:

Philip wrote:

RickD wrote: With that said, do you mind if I ask God to reveal Himself to you, in a way that you can understand?

Audie: Any time.

For that understanding to become reality, one must, at the very least, sincerely WANT to know the truth about it. IF a person has the attitude and level of resistance to the truth, that NO level of evidence is sufficient, that NO calculated improbability will ever be allowed to dissuade their belief, or if they strongly desire to remain an unbeliever out of anger at the world, others, or whatever perceived unfairness about the world as it is NOW (yes, MAN has made this world a hell for many), or even from just a simple desire to remain their own little god (the only person they will ever be willing to submit to), then they'll not find or perceive of His existence or relevance. But being WILLING and also DESIRING the truth can change everything - even in people not necessarily seeking it.

Your comments are So Very true. Desiring the truth / being willing to Hear the truth.

Some of it is, and some cuts more ways than intended or perceived by the author.

Some, like "anger", "unfairness", "own little god" , those are no more than low cant.

Then too there is the element of wanting to believe which has led more than a few
into false love, among some few other things Deciding what must be so, then looking
for confirmation is the way to achieve self deception, somehow here flipped to be "truth".

At the risk of various things, I will point out that the wish to believe makes for a lot of Mormons
and divers flood believers, who've talked themselves into internalizing some serious idiocy.
How little willing are they to listen to even common sense. Speaking of things few are willing to admit to!

And what poor witesses such people are for the art and virtue of open mind, open heart.
What exemplars of immunity to evidence or calculations of probability!*

Sorry if that is on the harsh side. The onservations aboutvwhat must be wrong with me or whatever
atheists not present or identifiedthat I / we dont believe in god are no less harsh, actually the more as they are not true of me, and dont make senese to be true of anyone.


* a friend who is a banker has told me of how hard it is to talk sense to someone who is being
scammed. It is usually very difficult to convince them that for example thatthere is no "Dutch lottery", ifvthere were you cannot win without buying a ticket, etc,

Sometimes they even call the police to talk to the customer!

The power of wanting to believe, in action!

At the risk of various things, I will point out that the wish to believe makes for a lot of Mormons
and divers flood believers, who've talked themselves into internalizing some serious idiocy.

Where we are talking about the unScriptural beliefs of whatever cult, this is true. As for what various people have bought into, and convinced themselves of, it depends upon whether THEY have talked themselves into some nonsense, or that THE Truth (of Christ) has penetrated their minds and understandings a HUGE difference. And one doesn't necessarily buy into all the Bible asserts as truth before they can have a simple, basic faith in and a true/factual understanding of Christ. Many of us, long-time Christians, also struggle with the details, while remaining convinced of the one thing that Scripture says truly matters: That a crucified, resurrected Jesus is God!

Unfortunately, what at least seems being pointed out includes a couple of things that are untrue:

1) That there cannot be a definitive truth about God and His existence - He either exists or He does not. And IF He is, and if one believes that, they do believe in THE Truth. That should be pretty obvious. But that the Bible is true and Jesus is God is not perfectly clear to those in unbelief - for whatever reasons that may be - this is also obvious.

2) Because people believe many false things, and have convinced themselves of all manner of false beliefs, or joined whatever untrue cultist belief, this also means there can be NO correct belief in God.

3) That the basic truths of God are unknowable. Because IF the God of Scripture truly exists, then A) we CAN know Who He is, AND B) He WANTS us to know exactly who He is.

Of course, all of the above is true if the God of Scripture exists. While these things alone don't PROVE God's existence, they are logical to believe IF He, in fact does, exist.

#3
"Many of us, long-time Christians, also struggle with the details, while remaining convinced of the one thing that Scripture says truly matters; That's a crucified, resurrected Jesus is God."

A comment was made some time ago -- that some people are so open-minded that their brains fall out. To clarify -- it was Not on this Forum.

Willingness to Listen to what others are saying -- absolutely -- how else do we know what another person believes / thinks.
But That does not mean agreeing With or adopting their same beliefs. That Also suggests that the Other person is willing to listen to what "I" am saying. How much do we find we have in common or are at polar opposites with.

crochet1949 wrote:#3
"Many of us, long-time Christians, also struggle with the details, while remaining convinced of the one thing that Scripture says truly matters; That's a crucified, resurrected Jesus is God."

Such a high percent of the Christians that I have encountered have talked themselves into believing things far beyond the wild improbability someone calculated* for the chances of life forming spontaneously!

Looking from outside, that is what I see, and speaking as I may for
my fellow Asian non -Christians, it is easy to, hard not to think
"Oh, that is the kind of person who'd believe anything; no wonder they
also believe in "God".

Same as if you meet one of those people who go on about the ratio
of the pyramid to Stonehenge, conspiracies and bigfoot, flying saucers,
bermuda triangle, chemtrails and the B17 bomber lost in Ww2 but now seen on the moon...

Or maybe Ron Wyatts photos of Sodom, Gomorrah and Noahs ark.
Seriously dumb.

These are credulous people without any sense about distinguishing nutty fantasies from things
that are real, or at least possible. Who with any sense would take their word, their folloeers word on anything
tha sounds iffy and cant be confirmed or worse, defies common sense and all research done
in that field?

My opinion-for you guys to take or leave as you like, I've no stake in whether
evangelizing succeeds or fails- but here is how I see it:

Unless the plan is to skip educated adults and only try to win kids
or the low info crowd, a bunch of you really need to look very hard at
whether you have a duty of care. Are you fiduciaries or bound
by no responsibilities to your faith, at all?

Call flood, gap, yec, embedded age and all those "unimportant doctrinal differences"
as you like, and take ye comfort as ye may that it is of no consequence.

Take it from me as your target audience that it is of the greatest
consequence, and that every one of you who does indulge in
the negligence that allows for these childish superstitions to flourish
is doing gross disservice to whatever Truth you may have to present.

Of course, not one of you will take me seriously.


* calculations like, say how unlikely it is that you could vaporize some bacteria
and then have them reappear upon cooling. That one is so dumb
on so many levels its a wonder the internet didnt vaporize too.

Audie
I feel truly concerned for you -- because -- at Some point in the future -- you, too, will 'wake up' in eternity. Everyone Will be acknowledging God as the God Almighty that He IS.
And, yes, a few of 'us' have been / Are trying to 'reach you' -- Somehow -- with what we Know is of Great consequence. Of great Importance.

Audie wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:#3
"Many of us, long-time Christians, also struggle with the details, while remaining convinced of the one thing that Scripture says truly matters; That's a crucified, resurrected Jesus is God."

Such a high percent of the Christians that I have encountered have talked themselves into believing things far beyond the wild improbability someone calculated* for the chances of life forming spontaneously!

Looking from outside, that is what I see, and speaking as I may for
my fellow Asian non -Christians, it is easy to, hard not to think
"Oh, that is the kind of person who'd believe anything; no wonder they
also believe in "God".

Same as if you meet one of those people who go on about the ratio
of the pyramid to Stonehenge, conspiracies and bigfoot, flying saucers,
bermuda triangle, chemtrails and the B17 bomber lost in Ww2 but now seen on the moon...

Or maybe Ron Wyatts photos of Sodom, Gomorrah and Noahs ark.
Seriously dumb.

These are credulous people without any sense about distinguishing nutty fantasies from things
that are real, or at least possible. Who with any sense would take their word, their folloeers word on anything
tha sounds iffy and cant be confirmed or worse, defies common sense and all research done
in that field?

My opinion-for you guys to take or leave as you like, I've no stake in whether
evangelizing succeeds or fails- but here is how I see it:

Unless the plan is to skip educated adults and only try to win kids
or the low info crowd, a bunch of you really need to look very hard at
whether you have a duty of care. Are you fiduciaries or bound
by no responsibilities to your faith, at all?

Call flood, gap, yec, embedded age and all those "unimportant doctrinal differences"
as you like, and take ye comfort as ye may that it is of no consequence.

Take it from me as your target audience that it is of the greatest
consequence, and that every one of you who does indulge in
the negligence that allows for these childish superstitions to flourish
is doing gross disservice to whatever Truth you may have to present.

Of course, not one of you will take me seriously.


* calculations like, say how unlikely it is that you could vaporize some bacteria
and then have them reappear upon cooling. That one is so dumb
on so many levels its a wonder the internet didnt vaporize too.

Audie fire and brimstone awaits, convert quicklier! Or more quickly! Or quicker!
Which one is right, though? More quickly, quicklier or quicker in USA English?

Why do you think we would not take you seriously?
It is true that theories or "doctrines" that defy scientific evidence (and methods?) are dumb, but what can you do? Yeah, you can point it out to those superstitious people and if they don't listen, then what? Not much you can do, really. *khm* yec *khm**khm*

From what I've seen from this post, the problem is that too many superstitious/dumb people are Christians, which makes you distance yourself from such a religion among other things, correct?

IceMobster wrote:From what I've seen from this post, the problem is that too many superstitious/dumb people are Christians, which makes you distance yourself from such a religion among other things, correct?

From what I've seen from this post, the problem is that too many superstitious/dumb people are Atheistic, which makes folks distance oneself from such a faith system among other things, correct?
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After following these postings further, I see how educated people can demean, castigate, ridicule folks while touting tolerance as a virtue at the same time. While shouting this sort of mindless dribble: Christians are hicks who can't think for themselves, ignorant, the kind of people who'd believe anything, who superstitious twits, and are credulous people without any sense about distinguishing nutty fantasies from things that are real, or at least possible.

Anyone not Christian, who with any sense would never take their word, or their followers word on anything that sounds iffy and cant be confirmed or worse, defies common sense and all research done in that field? Who skip educated adults to convert and only try to win the low info crowd, a bunch of you really need to look very hard at whether you have a duty of care.



There is no proof of spontaneous creation out of nothing, yet, it is believed by many educated people that creation happened by random chance accident and all came into being - when in the world of mathematics such occurrence is rated as impossible.

So are you atheistic, educated one also fiduciaries, or bound by no responsibilities to your faith, at all?

Conclusion:

People have the right to speculate about creation of the universe and the creation all things because by such speculations justice and respect is learned in the art of debate. After all, within the questioning, one may find the answer as it unleashes the ability for people to think and reason on his or her own. However, If we were all cookie cutter think alikes dictated too by educated elites then what a dreary world this would be....

Have a nice day!
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B. W. wrote:

IceMobster wrote:From what I've seen from this post, the problem is that too many superstitious/dumb people are Christians, which makes you distance yourself from such a religion among other things, correct?

From what I've seen from this post, the problem is that too many superstitious/dumb people are Atheistic, which makes folks distance oneself from such a faith system among other things, correct?
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B.W. with his nonsense again...

You do realize that this question was posed to Audie, right? You do realize that I didn't claim many Christians are too superstitious/dumb? You do realize I know of such Christians from personal experience and realize generalization of all because of some of those make no sense, right?

In fact, I was trying to point out how she has a similar "problem" to Ghandi who once said he would accept Jesus without a problem had the Christians (of the time) actually followed Christ. (Prior or after that he said other things, as well, concerning Christ but that doesn't matter now...)

Furthermore, I am certain that is not the only problem she has concerning Christianity or other religions.

"And how about maybe you chill?" Here, learn something new today: History of Japan

IceMobster wrote:

Audie wrote:

crochet1949 wrote:#3
"Many of us, long-time Christians, also struggle with the details, while remaining convinced of the one thing that Scripture says truly matters; That's a crucified, resurrected Jesus is God."

Such a high percent of the Christians that I have encountered have talked themselves into believing things far beyond the wild improbability someone calculated* for the chances of life forming spontaneously!

Looking from outside, that is what I see, and speaking as I may for
my fellow Asian non -Christians, it is easy to, hard not to think
"Oh, that is the kind of person who'd believe anything; no wonder they
also believe in "God".

Same as if you meet one of those people who go on about the ratio
of the pyramid to Stonehenge, conspiracies and bigfoot, flying saucers,
bermuda triangle, chemtrails and the B17 bomber lost in Ww2 but now seen on the moon...

Or maybe Ron Wyatts photos of Sodom, Gomorrah and Noahs ark.
Seriously dumb.

These are credulous people without any sense about distinguishing nutty fantasies from things
that are real, or at least possible. Who with any sense would take their word, their folloeers word on anything
tha sounds iffy and cant be confirmed or worse, defies common sense and all research done
in that field?

My opinion-for you guys to take or leave as you like, I've no stake in whether
evangelizing succeeds or fails- but here is how I see it:

Unless the plan is to skip educated adults and only try to win kids
or the low info crowd, a bunch of you really need to look very hard at
whether you have a duty of care. Are you fiduciaries or bound
by no responsibilities to your faith, at all?

Call flood, gap, yec, embedded age and all those "unimportant doctrinal differences"
as you like, and take ye comfort as ye may that it is of no consequence.

Take it from me as your target audience that it is of the greatest
consequence, and that every one of you who does indulge in
the negligence that allows for these childish superstitions to flourish
is doing gross disservice to whatever Truth you may have to present.

Of course, not one of you will take me seriously.


* calculations like, say how unlikely it is that you could vaporize some bacteria
and then have them reappear upon cooling. That one is so dumb
on so many levels its a wonder the internet didnt vaporize too.

Audie fire and brimstone awaits, convert quicklier! Or more quickly! Or quicker!
Which one is right, though? More quickly, quicklier or quicker in USA English?

Why do you think we would not take you seriously?
It is true that theories or "doctrines" that defy scientific evidence (and methods?) are dumb, but what can you do? Yeah, you can point it out to those superstitious people and if they don't listen, then what? Not much you can do, really. *khm* yec *khm**khm*

From what I've seen from this post, the problem is that too many superstitious/dumb people are Christians, which makes you distance yourself from such a religion among other things, correct?

No, that is not it.

B. W. wrote:

IceMobster wrote:From what I've seen from this post, the problem is that too many superstitious/dumb people are Christians, which makes you distance yourself from such a religion among other things, correct?

From what I've seen from this post, the problem is that too many superstitious/dumb people are Atheistic, which makes folks distance oneself from such a faith system among other things, correct?
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Atheism is a religion

Atheism is a faith.

Right. Keep it up.

Audie wrote: No, that is not it.

RIP.

Which one is right, though? More quickly, quicklier or quicker in USA English?

IceMobster wrote:

Audie wrote: No, that is not it.

RIP.

Which one is right, though? More quickly, quicklier or quicker in USA English?

American Engrish you say any way you likeaahh.