Evidence for God from Science

Really old people come to Florida to live out their last days, huh? So, should I be expecting you soon?

Not for me...too many foreigners in Florida.

AMERICA FOR AMERICANS

theophilus wrote:The Bible commands us to pray for the leaders of our country. Whether Trump turns out to be good or bad will depend on how faithful Christians are in obeying this command.

Point out the verse(s), please.

IceMobster wrote:

theophilus wrote:The Bible commands us to pray for the leaders of our country. Whether Trump turns out to be good or bad will depend on how faithful Christians are in obeying this command.

Point out the verse(s), please.

1 Timothy 2:1-3 talks about praying for our leaders. But blaming Christians, and saying we didn't pray enough, would be the reason Trump turns out to be "bad", is just so ridiculous.

Hey, caution and forewarning aside, this has been a great 24 hours so far. I haven't been happier in my country in a very long time. A lot of people are happy, and a lot of people unhappy too, but happiness is much more fleeting than unhappiness.

So to add to what I said above, be happy. Grasp that spark and just have a great night, you all

Well, I know a number of my American friends have already written Mike Pence as to what they expect from a new Trump administration including, among other things, the complete dismantling of the American pornographic (industry/business), because 98% of the women in that industry are victims of incest and/or sexual assault, and many are drug and alcohol dependent, only to be sexually exploited for money. And the eradication of the Gay Marriage constitutional amendment. And as Mike Pence said, he wants to see "Roe vs Wade" on the ash heap of history. Trump has said he wants to crush all the gangs and probably continue the war of drugs, except it will be waged within the U.S. and not outside its borders. And that is a good start, getting back to the way the founders of the U.S. envisioned America, instead of the way secular progressives, for decades, have been and want to redirect and reshape it, away from its Christian moral foundation.

As John Adams, Second President of the U.S. once said, "Our constitution was founded for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the governance of any other."

Here is Mike Pence's Message to Pastors and Churches from a few days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBA75ySaN1E


Oh, and you can keep the Liberal movie stars and musicians in the U.S. We don't need them in Canada as we have been infected with far too many Liberals as it is, who have done incredible social damage, including our Prime Minister, who has the diplomatic and moral skills of a potted plant.

"Whereas Canada is founded on the principles that recognize the Supremacy of God and the rule of Law". First line of the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms.

Well, one thing that I thought was very interesting, and that was, after the end of Trumps' conciliatory, sober-sounding, 3 a.m. acceptance speech, the music they played from the stage was the Stone's "You Can't Always Get What You Want" - a very strange, if unique, choice. Gotta wonder, is any of it is of that song unintentionally prophetic for America's future under Trump?

Few outtakes of key verses of the song, with perhaps a bit of creative symbolic analysis:

"No, you can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want
You can't always get what you want"

No, millions didn't get the candidate they wanted - neither from the primaries or the general election. But millions of Christians voted for Trump, yet prayerfully, reluctantly and with great trepidation. I was thinking of how God, throughout Scripture, used the most unlikely of characters that impacted Israel in good ways. He used Cyrus the Great, a pagan king, who the prophet saiah had predicted, 150 years beforehand, would be God's tool to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem, under Ezra and Zerubbabel. This also revealed that the captivity would end.

"But if you try sometime you find
You get what you need"

No, we wouldn't have chosen or predicted a pagan King would end Israel's captivity and restoration of the temple. But God did. Can - WILL He use Trump in positive ways? We don't know - we can only pray for him, for the direction of our Country - for changed hearts and minds which no politician can address the SPIRITUAL void and blindness of Americans.

"And I went down to the demonstration
To get my fair share of abuse
Singing, "We're gonna vent our frustration
If we don't we're gonna blow a 50-amp fuse"

Written during the Viet Nam war years of often violent protests - how apt for today's anger and madness in the streets.

"I went down to the Chelsea drugstore
To get your prescription filled"

Well, the Stones at least got the daughter's name right - but her mom and dad were just part of the problem causing a nation's ills.

"I was standing in line with Mr. Jimmy
And man, did he look pretty ill"

"Mr. Jimmy - a good metaphor for America - it DOES look pretty ill!

"I saw her today at the reception"

Hillary!

"In her glass was a bleeding man"

A dysfunctional, troubled America!

"She was practiced at the art of deception
Well I could tell by her blood-stained hands"

Hillary - yep, VERY practiced at her "art" - she certainly has blood on her hands!

"You can't always get what you want"

NO, she could not - she LOST!

"But if you try sometimes you just might find
You just might find
You get what you need"

We'll see, won't we? Or maybe it was just a cool song selection?

RickD wrote:

theophilus wrote:The Bible commands us to pray for the leaders of our country. Whether Trump turns out to be good or bad will depend on how faithful Christians are in obeying this command.

I hope you're not serious.

I am serious. I suspect that many of the political problems we have had in the past came about because too many Christians failed to pray for their leaders as they should. I know that I have often neglected this duty and I hope to do better in the future.

theophilus wrote:

RickD wrote:

theophilus wrote:The Bible commands us to pray for the leaders of our country. Whether Trump turns out to be good or bad will depend on how faithful Christians are in obeying this command.

I hope you're not serious.

I am serious. I suspect that many of the political problems we have had in the past came about because too many Christians failed to pray for their leaders as they should. I know that I have often neglected this duty and I hope to do better in the future.

So,

We blame presidents doing a bad job, and political problems on Christians who don't pray for leaders "as they should"?

It has nothing to do with politicians making bad choices, just Christians not praying?

That's asinine, and unbiblical.

There's nothing in scripture that says the US has presidents who do a bad job, because Christians don't pray enough.

Does prayer help? Sure. But to say it's the reason for politicians doing a bad job, there's no basis in scripture for that.

You said whether Trump is a good or bad president, depends on how Christians pray. Just want people to see that you actually said that.

RickD wrote:We blame presidents doing a bad job, and political problems on Christians who don't pray for leaders "as they should"?

It has nothing to do with politicians making bad choices, just Christians not praying?

That's asinine, and unbiblical.

There's nothing in scripture that says the US has presidents who do a bad job, because Christians don't pray enough.

But have you ever asked yourself why our leaders make bad choices?

The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the LORD;
he turns it wherever he will.
(Proverbs 21:1 ESV)

If God controls the choices our leaders make then surely we have a responsibility to pray that he will lead them to make the right choices. We miss out on many blessings, including good government, simply because we don't ask God for them.

Does prayer help? Sure. But to say it's the reason for politicians doing a bad job, there's no basis in scripture for that.

You said whether Trump is a good or bad president, depends on how Christians pray. Just want people to see that you actually said that.

I actually said it and I still believe it.

Theophilus,

Do you make a habit of taking OT scripture, and just applying it to all Christians?

Scripture indicates we often don't have because we don't ASK. HOWEVER, we clearly don't just receive things merely because we ask for them, as Scripture also teaches that the key to answered prayers is that we must ask for things that are within His perfect will. So, lets look at the many things that God has allowed, that HE desired, that most Christians would NEVER have prayed for - things most would only have seen as being negatives, but that He meant for good. And Christians often are praying for opposing things to their other brothers and sisters in Christ. And that are many things - WE never would have asked for and didn't want, but that God DID, as He had perfect purposes in making them the resulting reality. As well, He oftentimes gives us what we deserve per our own sinful desires - that we THINK is good, but that He provides as either a learning experience or punishment. It all has to do with whether our prayers are lining up with God's will or not. And His will is often to chastise or teach us lessons - or to allow ordeals through which we may suffer but greatly learn from and grow through. Thing is, God knows all things ahead of time, and so He knows of our actions and His responses to them, before they occur. So He's already decided AND knows of all of His actions and of ours - and He's ALWAYS known these things.

We have to very careful with simplistic statements as to the WHY of a particular thing.

RickD wrote:Theophilus,

Do you make a habit of taking OT scripture, and just applying it to all Christians?

I believe 2 Timothy 3:16,17:

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
(2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV)

God does NOT control our choices.