Evidence for God from Science

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Why is lust wrong?

I meant sexual sin.
Porn is out of control in this society, among my peers there are many who watch porn and don't feel bad about it.

What is sexual sin?

PaulSacramento wrote:

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Why is lust wrong?

I meant sexual sin.
Porn is out of control in this society, among my peers there are many who watch porn and don't feel bad about it.

What is sexual sin?

Sex outside of marriage of man and woman, which lusting can be a part of.

Why is that a sin?

'PS' are you asking why sex outside of marriage is a sin? Why lusting after someone outside of your marriage is a sin?

To offer an answer to the thread question. You'd have to agree as to what it is first and then you may or may not be able to do the convincing yourself -- let the Holy Spirit work in their heart.

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Why is lust wrong?

I meant sexual sin.
Porn is out of control in this society, among my peers there are many who watch porn and don't feel bad about it.

First, in social terms, you could tell them how pathetic they must be to simply "watch" rather than be the ones "doing" if that is what they really want.

But then, following that... ask them what if they could actually be the ones "doing" in all the porn they watch. They're actually the man and they get to screw all these 100s and 1000s of people perhaps animals, perhaps even sadly abused kids, they see in images or watch in videos. Ask them whether there's something wrong with that?

If they actually like the thought, now substitute in their daughter, sister, girlfriend or mother. Would they feel quite comfortable with such all having the same 1000s of sexual experiences? If there is even a little uncomfort (and I dare say there would be a lot if they're honest), get them to explain why if there is nothing truly wrong?

crochet1949 wrote:'PS' are you asking why sex outside of marriage is a sin? Why lusting after someone outside of your marriage is a sin?

I asking the HIM why HE thinks they are a sin.
The "5 whys" is a valid method of leading someone to a conclusion by having them analyse what they believe to be the reasons.

PaulSacramento wrote:Why is that a sin?

Bc it is taking someone and using them as an object for pleasure, outside of marriage.

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Why is that a sin?

Bc it is taking someone and using them as an object for pleasure, outside of marriage.

And why is THAT a sin?

See, to state that lust is wrong we need to understand WHY it is wrong.

PaulSacramento wrote:

thatkidakayoungguy wrote:

PaulSacramento wrote:Why is that a sin?

Bc it is taking someone and using them as an object for pleasure, outside of marriage.

And why is THAT a sin?

See, to state that lust is wrong we need to understand WHY it is wrong.

It goes against what God says. Plus it can make people distanced from God, hurt relationships and cause one to be in a social mess.

People have a built-in moral compass. I reckon it's best to work with that, to logically challenge them, rather than come at it with an authoritarian style of argument like "God says..."

Unfortunately, I think there's a lot of people you simply won't be able to convince of this. I would suggest checking whether they think something can even be degrading in the first place, much less whether things can really be sacred. Shame/honor seem like the closest things you could reach for, as they IME are basically universally felt, but if someone doesn't feel any shame in lust I think you're out of luck.

FWIW, the way I conceptualize lust as wrong is primarily from self-dilution (the lust of which you speak is ultimately purposeless) and secondarily leading down a path towards apathy (and by extension, abuse of other people).

Ok, so, what makes something a sin?
Just saying "God says so" doesn't work.
That is an argument from authority and while OK for believers ( and even then it isn't a great argument because then you have to prove that God said it and under context, etc..) it is NOT relevant for unbelievers.

Patrick is on the right course, there are valid moral and ethical and, perhaps more potent then these, reasonable and logical reason why lusting after someone that is not a spouse is not in the best interest of the individual OR the group ( saying wrong can get you into a subjective debate about who decides right and wrong).

Honestly, if the positive stimulus of lust outweighs the joy of God, you can't convince them.

Every time I see "How do I convince...." you can't. I'm sorry. Most humans are as stubborn as solid metal, are not prone to sudden changes of heart, and when that does happen, it takes a great upheaval for this to come about.

They have to convince *themselves* first before you can.