Evidence for God from Science

Gilligan wrote:So not all extinction events were punishment for sin?

We can't say that,just natural disasters,judgment was'nt poured out until the Gap biblically speaking.I don't think we need to say that at every extinction event God poured out judgment,instead they were just natural disasters up until the Gap.We can't really say biblically either way but we can say at the gap judgment was poured out.

So the ones like the End-Permian and the End-Cretaceous may have been natural rather than divine?

Gilligan wrote:So the ones like the End-Permian and the End-Cretaceous may have been natural rather than divine/

Yes,I don't like adding things in,God's word does'nt say.It is harder to understand the Gap Theory fully.Like with other creation interpretations you can go to their web-sights to where it is like every question is answered,this is not so with the Gap Theory and it is a big reason why people don't understand it fully and scoff at it.

With the Gap Theory it can take time just learning how it is true biblically,you pretty much have to go to several gap theory teaching and/or gap theory dedicated web-sights about it and put it all together yourself to fully understand it and this is before you can even get into how to blend the science into it.

Most Gap Theorists are smart biblically but they don't know much about science and so you're only getting a biblical view.But once a person can understand it biblically then thy can start looking into science and finding ways to make it fit into this interpretation.You have to do it on your own pretty much,unless you know someone.

Then there are some Gap Theorist that get more into the mystical side of the Gap Theory and don't really focus on the science much,they try to focus on what Lucifer and the fallen angels were doing and what that world was like and they have done their research too.I think both sides bring interesting things to the table and it just enhances the understanding of the Gap Theory.

abelcainsbrother wrote: Yes,I don't like adding things in,God's word does'nt say.It is harder to understand the Gap Theory fully.Like with other creation interpretations you can go to their web-sights to where it is like every question is answered,this is not so with the Gap Theory and it is a big reason why people don't understand it fully and scoff at it.

This is a good point, I’m convinced the Gap Theory can’t be found in scripture. It’s presuppositional based on timing the fall of the morning star (son of the dawn). Scripture first...............science second. A plug for “Progressive Creationism” is that it can be shown primarily in scripture (sola scriptura!), ...no science required.

With the Gap Theory it can take time just learning how it is true biblically,you pretty much have to go to several gap theory teaching and/or gap theory dedicated web-sights about it and put it all together yourself to fully understand it and this is before you can even get into how to blend the science into it.

What you stated rings true for other doctrines like the pre-trib rapture position. It takes time to learn how pre-trib fits biblically, even John Walvoord, the father of the modern pre-trib doctrine readily admits, “It's an implied teaching”. I don’t believe in the pre-trib rapture position for the same reasons I don’t believe in the Gap theory. Both are eisegesis and can’t be supported, lacking exegetical support.

Most Gap Theorists are smart biblically but they don't know much about science and so you're only getting a biblical view.But once a person can understand it biblically then thy can start looking into science and finding ways to make it fit into this interpretation.You have to do it on your own pretty much,unless you know someone.

I have to say I feel every doctrine should be based on a exegetical study of God's Word, then supported through science or the historical record. If I were giving a teaching on God’s prophetic Word, I’d have to first establish a sound biblical definition of a prophecy. An example of this is the desolation of Damascus mentioned by the prophet Isaiah. Solid biblical scholarship has been calling this one for the last hundred years. Thus Damascus has been laid waste and continues to be laid waste. Our creation position should be based solely on scripture, then it can be easily supported through science or whatever appropriate external references.

Then there are some Gap Theorist that get more into the mystical side of the Gap Theory and don't really focus on the science much,they try to focus on what Lucifer and the fallen angels were doing and what that world was like and they have done their research too.I think both sides bring interesting things to the table and it just enhances the understanding of the Gap Theory.

Nice commentary on the Gap Theory. Good stuff in your post... I like

yorican67 wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote: Yes,I don't like adding things in,God's word does'nt say.It is harder to understand the Gap Theory fully.Like with other creation interpretations you can go to their web-sights to where it is like every question is answered,this is not so with the Gap Theory and it is a big reason why people don't understand it fully and scoff at it.

This is a good point, I’m convinced the Gap Theory can’t be found in scripture. It’s presuppositional based on timing the fall of the morning star (son of the dawn). Scripture first...............science second. A plug for “Progressive Creationism” is that it can be shown primarily in scripture (sola scriptura!), ...no science required.

With the Gap Theory it can take time just learning how it is true biblically,you pretty much have to go to several gap theory teaching and/or gap theory dedicated web-sights about it and put it all together yourself to fully understand it and this is before you can even get into how to blend the science into it.

What you stated rings true for other doctrines like the pre-trib rapture position. It takes time to learn how pre-trib fits biblically, even John Walvoord, the father of the modern pre-trib doctrine readily admits, “It's an implied teaching”. I don’t believe in the pre-trib rapture position for the same reasons I don’t believe in the Gap theory. Both are eisegesis and can’t be supported, lacking exegetical support.

Most Gap Theorists are smart biblically but they don't know much about science and so you're only getting a biblical view.But once a person can understand it biblically then thy can start looking into science and finding ways to make it fit into this interpretation.You have to do it on your own pretty much,unless you know someone.

I have to say I feel every doctrine should be based on a exegetical study of God's Word, then supported through science or the historical record. If I were giving a teaching on God’s prophetic Word, I’d have to first establish a sound biblical definition of a prophecy. An example of this is the desolation of Damascus mentioned by the prophet Isaiah. Solid biblical scholarship has been calling this one for the last hundred years. Thus Damascus has been laid waste and continues to be laid waste. Our creation position should be based solely on scripture, then it can be easily supported through science or whatever appropriate external references.

Then there are some Gap Theorist that get more into the mystical side of the Gap Theory and don't really focus on the science much,they try to focus on what Lucifer and the fallen angels were doing and what that world was like and they have done their research too.I think both sides bring interesting things to the table and it just enhances the understanding of the Gap Theory.

Nice commentary on the Gap Theory. Good stuff in your post... I like

Sorry but I don't believe you to a certian extent.I know how hard it can be to fully understand the Gap Theory and that most do not even have a very good understanding of the Gap Theory. this is one reason that despite rejecting the Gap theory there has never been somebody who believed one of these other creation interpretations have ever truthfully biblically refuted the Gap Theory eventhough they reject it. I have read what rival creation ministries have said against the Gap Theory and I can tell that they are rejecting the Gap Theory based on strawman arguments,half-truths and even lies in some cases and are being dishonest with the way they are rejecting the Gap Theory in order to promote their creation interpretation.

It is wrong to lie and be dishonest just because you believe some other interpretation and yet they think it is justified just because they think the Gap Theory is wrong. Some even re-write history and edited sermons in order to promote their interpretation.This is one reason why I accept the Gap Theory as true because when I look into why other creationists claim to reject the Gap Theory and I look into it to see who is right it is them that are lying and being dishonest and are wrong about what they claim about the Gap Theory. As a matter of fact I have a thread on here somewhere where I go through the arguments they claim the Gap Theory is wrong but I refute a refutation of the Gap Theory I read on-line somewhere and I show how dishonest and how much lying they are doing to claim the Gap Theory is wrong.Is it OK for Christians to lie?

It is clear that they do not have enough understanding of it to even refute it biblically Instead they just go to the big fancy web-sights that have teams of scientists at work trying to make science fit into their interpretation and every question is answered too and they just take the easy way out and jump on board,it is easy to do.And so people take the easy road and latch on to these more popular creation interpretations and beliefs overlooking the truth of the Gap Theory that does not have all the glitter the others have at first glance but is the only one out of them all that could destroy the theory of evolution that has decieved so many people away from God's word.

But once you do have understanding it enhances our bible knowledge when it comes to creationism and the sience fits into easily because this science was evidence for the Gap Theory before evolution became science and so it still fits today.When scientists in the 1700's and 1800's made discoveries and it confirmed the Gap Theory interpretation true according to the evidence scientists had discovered people like Thomas Chalmers and William Buckland realized it and started to preach,teach and show how the science confirmed this interpretation and this was before Charles Darwin and they started preaching the Gap Theory and trying to show how the science fit into it at that time and before Charles Darwin.

It was like a revelation from God at the time that confirmed the Gap Theory interpretation at the time.Kindof like when Christians realize prophecies that have been fulfillled.

The problem with using modern day biblical exigesis is that it has been influenced too much by young earth creationism too much since about the 1970's. Even these modern bible translations have been translated to give a young earth interpretation instead of an old earth interpretation.So today you're going to be much more influenced to believe young earth creationism over an old earth interpretation.Where 500 years ago before the age of the earth was even known and was such a hot topic issue you would get an old earth interpretation instead.

I believe the pre-trib rapture is true by the way and all you've got to do is know that the word "rapture" and the words "caught up" mean the same thing in english and so we can say we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air or we can say we will be raptured to meet the Lord in the air. In the rapture we are caught up/raptured to meet Jesus in the air and are changed instantly so that we can go to heaven with him to escape the wrath of the tribulation.

This is why Jesus told us to pray that we would be counted worthy to escape these things coming on the earth during the tribulation. It is because we can escape the tribulation by being raptured to meet the Lord in the air,changed and taken to heaven to escape the wrath.By the way,some Gap theorists reject the rapture too,I just think they are wrong about that.

ACB,

God gave me a prophecy that said the Gap Theory is false.

abelcainsbrother wrote: Sorry but I don't believe you to a certian extent.I know how hard it can be to fully understand the Gap Theory and that most do not even have a very good understanding of the Gap Theory. this is one reason that despite rejecting the Gap theory there has never been somebody who believed one of these other creation interpretations have ever truthfully biblically refuted the Gap Theory eventhough they reject it. I have read what rival creation ministries have said against the Gap Theory and I can tell that they are rejecting the Gap Theory based on strawman arguments,half-truths and even lies in some cases and are being dishonest with the way they are rejecting the Gap Theory in order to promote their creation interpretation.

I never saw the Gap theory as being difficult to understand, it was more a lack of biblical references to support the claim. So to clarify where do you see the Gap occurring in the Genesis creation account? Consider that the bible speaks of just three creation accounts. One at the beginning of the bible (Genesis), one midway through the bible (John), and one at the end of the bible (Revelation). Understanding these three creation narratives are key to understanding the context of the Genesis creation account. You’d have to explain the re-creation within Gap theory in light of the re-creation in Revelation. It’s an uphill battle. Having a re-creation of the re-creation doesn't really fit the context of having a re-creation, its redundant. How do we define biblical truth and defend against false teachings? Through the whole of scripture from the beginning to the end and the bible only speaks about one re-creation.

It is wrong to lie and be dishonest just because you believe some other interpretation and yet they think it is justified just because they think the Gap Theory is wrong. Some even re-write history and edited sermons in order to promote their interpretation.This is one reason why I accept the Gap Theory as true because when I look into why other creationists claim to reject the Gap Theory and I look into it to see who is right it is them that are lying and being dishonest and are wrong about what they claim about the Gap Theory. As a matter of fact I have a thread on here somewhere where I go through the arguments they claim the Gap Theory is wrong but I refute a refutation of the Gap Theory I read on-line somewhere and I show how dishonest and how much lying they are doing to claim the Gap Theory is wrong.Is it OK for Christians to lie?

Who's being dishonest? I apologize if I upset you in anyway, but scripture is clear that iron sharpens iron. Honestly I find the Gap Theory a presuppositional distortion, lack any significant scriptural references. Progressive Creationism fits the whole of scripture, perfectly. I came to this conclusion after an honest inquiry into what the bible said regarding the creation.

It is clear that they do not have enough understanding of it to even refute it biblically Instead they just go to the big fancy web-sights that have teams of scientists at work trying to make science fit into their interpretation and every question is answered too and they just take the easy way out and jump on board,it is easy to do.And so people take the easy road and latch on to these more popular creation interpretations and beliefs overlooking the truth of the Gap Theory that does not have all the glitter the others have at first glance but is the only one out of them all that could destroy the theory of evolution that has decieved so many people away from God's word.

This is a strange statement if you referring to my previous post. Since I clearly stated that I don’t need science to validate my creation position. I don’t need science to validate the Progressive Creation position, just my bible. As I posted prior Sola Scriptura! God says in his Word that the bible is sufficient for all instruction and knowledge, no science required. Anyways the Young Earth Creation position is the only creation position that has led astray believers and non-believers from God’s Word. I can list too many examples of this sad truth...

But once you do have understanding it enhances our bible knowledge when it comes to creationism and the sience fits into easily because this science was evidence for the Gap Theory before evolution became science and so it still fits today.When scientists in the 1700's and 1800's made discoveries and it confirmed the Gap Theory interpretation true according to the evidence scientists had discovered people like Thomas Chalmers and William Buckland realized it and started to preach,teach and show how the science confirmed this interpretation and this was before Charles Darwin and they started preaching the Gap Theory and trying to show how the science fit into it at that time and before Charles Darwin.

I could make the same claim for the Progressive Creation position, but that doesn’t really address the the issue. Besides are you claiming that the earth was re-created 6,000 to 10,000 years ago? Well the science doesn’t support such a claim. It's an inherent problem with the Gap theory, that it embraces much of the Young Earth creation narrative. I'd again ask if you could clarify where in Genesis the Gap Theory begins.

The problem with using modern day biblical exigesis is that it has been influenced too much by young earth creationism too much since about the 1970's. Even these modern bible translations have been translated to give a young earth interpretation instead of an old earth interpretation.So today you're going to be much more influenced to believe young earth creationism over an old earth interpretation.Where 500 years ago before the age of the earth was even known and was such a hot topic issue you would get an old earth interpretation instead.

Agreed… But I’m not a Young Earth Creationist.

I believe the pre-trib rapture is true by the way and all you've got to do is know that the word "rapture" and the words "caught up" mean the same thing in english and so we can say we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air or we can say we will be raptured to meet the Lord in the air. In the rapture we are caught up/raptured to meet Jesus in the air and are changed instantly so that we can go to heaven with him to escape the wrath of the tribulation.

Well your making the term “tribulation” synonymous with the word “wrath”. This is a flaw within the pre-trib doctrine. Little time to expound this here, but safe to say “the wrath of the tribulation” is a direct violation of the terms leading to a contradiction. Consider the terms in Greek translated as thlipsis (tribulaion) and orgay (wrath). A word study on the differences dissolves the pre-trib doctrine.

This is why Jesus told us to pray that we would be counted worthy to escape these things coming on the earth during the tribulation. It is because we can escape the tribulation by being raptured to meet the Lord in the air,changed and taken to heaven to escape the wrath.By the way,some Gap theorists reject the rapture too,I just think they are wrong about that.

The context you mentioned actually fits the pre-wrath position. Consider if you will that the rapture takes place in-between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seal. A word study on the words tribulation (thlipsis) and wrath (orgay) clarify this position.

Hoping you can present a comprehensive teaching on the Gap Theory. I’d read it…

yorican67 wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote: Sorry but I don't believe you to a certian extent.I know how hard it can be to fully understand the Gap Theory and that most do not even have a very good understanding of the Gap Theory. this is one reason that despite rejecting the Gap theory there has never been somebody who believed one of these other creation interpretations have ever truthfully biblically refuted the Gap Theory eventhough they reject it. I have read what rival creation ministries have said against the Gap Theory and I can tell that they are rejecting the Gap Theory based on strawman arguments,half-truths and even lies in some cases and are being dishonest with the way they are rejecting the Gap Theory in order to promote their creation interpretation.

I never saw the Gap theory as being difficult to understand, it was more a lack of biblical references to support the claim. So to clarify where do you see the Gap occurring in the Genesis creation account? Consider that the bible speaks of just three creation accounts. One at the beginning of the bible (Genesis), one midway through the bible (John), and one at the end of the bible (Revelation). Understanding these three creation narratives are key to understanding the context of the Genesis creation account. You’d have to explain the re-creation within Gap theory in light of the re-creation in Revelation. It’s an uphill battle. Having a re-creation of the re-creation doesn't really fit the context of having a re-creation, its redundant. How do we define biblical truth and defend against false teachings? Through the whole of scripture from the beginning to the end and the bible only speaks about one re-creation.

It is wrong to lie and be dishonest just because you believe some other interpretation and yet they think it is justified just because they think the Gap Theory is wrong. Some even re-write history and edited sermons in order to promote their interpretation.This is one reason why I accept the Gap Theory as true because when I look into why other creationists claim to reject the Gap Theory and I look into it to see who is right it is them that are lying and being dishonest and are wrong about what they claim about the Gap Theory. As a matter of fact I have a thread on here somewhere where I go through the arguments they claim the Gap Theory is wrong but I refute a refutation of the Gap Theory I read on-line somewhere and I show how dishonest and how much lying they are doing to claim the Gap Theory is wrong.Is it OK for Christians to lie?

Who's being dishonest? I apologize if I upset you in anyway, but scripture is clear that iron sharpens iron. Honestly I find the Gap Theory a presuppositional distortion, lack any significant scriptural references. Progressive Creationism fits the whole of scripture, perfectly. I came to this conclusion after an honest inquiry into what the bible said regarding the creation.

It is clear that they do not have enough understanding of it to even refute it biblically Instead they just go to the big fancy web-sights that have teams of scientists at work trying to make science fit into their interpretation and every question is answered too and they just take the easy way out and jump on board,it is easy to do.And so people take the easy road and latch on to these more popular creation interpretations and beliefs overlooking the truth of the Gap Theory that does not have all the glitter the others have at first glance but is the only one out of them all that could destroy the theory of evolution that has decieved so many people away from God's word.

This is a strange statement if you referring to my previous post. Since I clearly stated that I don’t need science to validate my creation position. I don’t need science to validate the Progressive Creation position, just my bible. As I posted prior Sola Scriptura! God says in his Word that the bible is sufficient for all instruction and knowledge, no science required. Anyways the Young Earth Creation position is the only creation position that has led astray believers and non-believers from God’s Word. I can list too many examples of this sad truth...

But once you do have understanding it enhances our bible knowledge when it comes to creationism and the sience fits into easily because this science was evidence for the Gap Theory before evolution became science and so it still fits today.When scientists in the 1700's and 1800's made discoveries and it confirmed the Gap Theory interpretation true according to the evidence scientists had discovered people like Thomas Chalmers and William Buckland realized it and started to preach,teach and show how the science confirmed this interpretation and this was before Charles Darwin and they started preaching the Gap Theory and trying to show how the science fit into it at that time and before Charles Darwin.

I could make the same claim for the Progressive Creation position, but that doesn’t really address the the issue. Besides are you claiming that the earth was re-created 6,000 to 10,000 years ago? Well the science doesn’t support such a claim. It's an inherent problem with the Gap theory, that it embraces much of the Young Earth creation narrative. I'd again ask if you could clarify where in Genesis the Gap Theory begins.

The problem with using modern day biblical exigesis is that it has been influenced too much by young earth creationism too much since about the 1970's. Even these modern bible translations have been translated to give a young earth interpretation instead of an old earth interpretation.So today you're going to be much more influenced to believe young earth creationism over an old earth interpretation.Where 500 years ago before the age of the earth was even known and was such a hot topic issue you would get an old earth interpretation instead.

Agreed… But I’m not a Young Earth Creationist.

I believe the pre-trib rapture is true by the way and all you've got to do is know that the word "rapture" and the words "caught up" mean the same thing in english and so we can say we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air or we can say we will be raptured to meet the Lord in the air. In the rapture we are caught up/raptured to meet Jesus in the air and are changed instantly so that we can go to heaven with him to escape the wrath of the tribulation.

Well your making the term “tribulation” synonymous with the word “wrath”. This is a flaw within the pre-trib doctrine. Little time to expound this here, but safe to say “the wrath of the tribulation” is a direct violation of the terms leading to a contradiction. Consider the terms in Greek translated as thlipsis (tribulaion) and orgay (wrath). A word study on the differences dissolves the pre-trib doctrine.

This is why Jesus told us to pray that we would be counted worthy to escape these things coming on the earth during the tribulation. It is because we can escape the tribulation by being raptured to meet the Lord in the air,changed and taken to heaven to escape the wrath.By the way,some Gap theorists reject the rapture too,I just think they are wrong about that.

The context you mentioned actually fits the pre-wrath position. Consider if you will that the rapture takes place in-between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seal. A word study on the words tribulation (thlipsis) and wrath (orgay) clarify this position.

Hoping you can present a comprehensive teaching on the Gap Theory. I’d read it…

The Gap Theory is hard to fully understand and this is why people overlook the truthfulness of it.In the context of recreation that does'nt seem to make sense to you.How about God baptising the earth in water to purge it from sin?It makes perfect sense to me.The earth is flooded in Genesis 1:2 and so everything after that had to be recreation.Plus,God is eternal and so recreation is not out of the question like you imply.I realize at first it does'nt sound right but all you have to do is read Genesis 1:2 and its description tells you the earth is in water.

Other creationists have been dishonest about the Gap Theory and why they reject it.No I'm not upset over creationism differences what gets me riled up is a false gospel.Creation is not a salvation issue,it is a truth issue though and we all cannot be right although in come cases we can have some of the truth but could be overlooking certian things.Progessive creationism is interesting to me but there are certian things that bother me about it.If I did'nt believe the Gap Theory is true I'd probably choose progressive creationism,but the Gap Theory is just more truthful to me.


I don't really need science to validate the Gap Theory either but it is nice when it does.I don't believe our faith is blind and I believe that when we have the correct biblical interpretation nature God created will line up with it and confirm it and it just enhances out understanding and faith in God's word being true.Both Young earth creationism and the theory of evolution have led people astray because sadly the theory of evolution is more believable than young earth creationism,but not the Gap Theory once the evidence is gone over and laid out for all to see.Gap Creationism becomes more believable based on the evidence and there would be less of an influence of evolution for us to deal with.

If the ice age happened about 12,000 years ago and it was a full extinction how can you claim science does'nt validate the Gap or that God could'nt have made this world about 6-10,000 years ago? Human history goes back this far,before this we are dealing with hominids and neanderthals that lived in the former world.The Gap Theory begins in Genesis 1:2 before God speaks and starts restoring the earth and heavens so that he can create the life we have in this world and man.

As far as the rapture you did not address how the words "caught up" and the word "rapture" mean the same thing and instead focused on the word "wrath" and "tribulation" when wrath is referring to the tribulation.Based on this the rapture cannot be at the end of the tribulation as you suggest bringing up the 6th and 7th seals.

I have done teachings on the Gap Theory I have some threads on here about it.I started a comprehensive teaching on it but I have'nt worked on it for awhile,I need to finish it sometime.I think it is good so far though.

I've mentioned this before, but I think a quick review is in order.

The most effective counter to the Gap Theory is Scripture itself. Specifically Genesis 1.

1. According to Scripture when does land first appear?
In Genesis 1:9-10, land doesn't even appear until Day 3... which occurs after Genesis 1:2. The reason the earth is covered with water in Genesis 1:2 is because land hasn't appeared yet.

2. According to Scripture when is plant life created?
In Genesis 1:11-12, God creates the first forms of plant life on Day 3... which again occurs after Genesis 1:2.

3. According to Scripture when is animal life created?
In Genesis 1:20-22, God creates animal life on Day 5... which again occurs after Genesis 1:2.

According to Genesis 1...
Dry land doesn't appear until after Genesis 1:2
Plant life isn't created until after Genesis 1:2
Animal life isn't created until after Genesis 1:2

There is no mention of a flood in Genesis 1:2... or anywhere in Genesis 1 for that matter. Genesis 1:2 is simply describing the state of the earth prior to the appearance of land.

The presuppositions that...
land appeared before Genesis 1:2, that God created plant life on earth before Genesis 1:2, that God created animal life before Genesis 1:2, and that a flood destroyed said life before Genesis 1:2 is all directly contradicted by what Scripture teaches in Genesis 1.

The Gap Theory is not only directly contradicted by science, it is also directly contradicted by Scripture itself.

Perhaps it's called the Gap Theory, because of all the gaps in logic, it needs, to be believed.

abelcainsbrother wrote:The Gap Theory is hard to fully understand and this is why people overlook the truthfulness of it.In the context of recreation that does'nt seem to make sense to you.How about God baptising the earth in water to purge it from sin?It makes perfect sense to me.The earth is flooded in Genesis 1:2 and so everything after that had to be recreation.

The idea of the re-creation isn’t an issue, it’s the claim there’s a second creation within the book of Genesis. This doesn’t make sense when compared to the book of Revelation. Look at Genesis and the book of Revelation as mirrored bookends. They both reflect each other in sharing the same insights into God’s Word. It’s one book, one author, one beginning, one ending.

In Genesis you have the seven days of creation - Revelation you have the seven church ages | Genesis you have the blood that calls out from the ground - Revelation you have the blood that calls out from the altar | Genesis we lose access to the tree of life - Revelation we gain access to the tree of life | Genesis we have the beginning - Revelation we have the new beginning | Genesis we have the creation | Revelation we have the re-creation. This list goes on and on...

Claiming a second creation event within the book of Genesis doesn’t fit the context or pattern of scripture. There’s only one creation event in Genesis and there’s only one creation event in Revelation.

Plus,God is eternal and so recreation is not out of the question like you imply.I realize at first it does'nt sound right but all you have to do is read Genesis 1:2 and its description tells you the earth is in water.

Huh? When did I imply the re-creation was out of the question. Well it’s out of the question if you're inferring it took place in the book of Genesis. I think you're reading something into the text that’s not there.

Other creationists have been dishonest about the Gap Theory and why they reject it.No I'm not upset over creationism differences what gets me riled up is a false gospel.Creation is not a salvation issue,it is a truth issue though and we all cannot be right although in come cases we can have some of the truth but could be overlooking certian things.Progessive creationism is interesting to me but there are certian things that bother me about it.If I did'nt believe the Gap Theory is true I'd probably choose progressive creationism,but the Gap Theory is just more truthful to me.

I only find some Young Earth Creationist to really be dishonest. Other than that I feel most Creation perspective are based on presuppositions or mislead Creationist teachings.

Agreed teaching a false gospel is crossing the line. The only true Christian dogma is Christ crucified.
One Way - One Truth - One God

I don't really need science to validate the Gap Theory either but it is nice when it does.I don't believe our faith is blind and I believe that when we have the correct biblical interpretation nature God created will line up with it and confirm it and it just enhances out understanding and faith in God's word being true.

Agreed

Both Young earth creationism and the theory of evolution have led people astray because sadly the theory of evolution is more believable than young earth creationism,but not the Gap Theory once the evidence is gone over and laid out for all to see.Gap Creationism becomes more believable based on the evidence and there would be less of an influence of evolution for us to deal with.

I think evolution gives people an excuse to ignore the God of the bible. But I never really saw it as leading them astray. If I weren’t a Progressive Creationist, I’d most likely lean towards a Theistic Evolution perspective. For evolution to be true would require a programmer. No monkeys allowed!

Young Earth Creationism on the other hand… Sorry it just comes out ignorant, more like a fairy tale that’s not very believable.

If the ice age happened about 12,000 years ago and it was a full extinction how can you claim science does'nt validate the Gap or that God could'nt have made this world about 6-10,000 years ago? Human history goes back this far,before this we are dealing with hominids and neanderthals that lived in the former world.The Gap Theory begins in Genesis 1:2 before God speaks and starts restoring the earth and heavens so that he can create the life we have in this world and man.

Your comments here are why the Gap Theory gives me pause. First because I don’t see it in scripture, and secondly I don’t see it in the historical record. This seem to be in parallel with the YEC position.

As far as the rapture you did not address how the words "caught up" and the word "rapture" mean the same thing and instead focused on the word "wrath" and "tribulation" when wrath is referring to the tribulation.Based on this the rapture cannot be at the end of the tribulation as you suggest bringing up the 6th and 7th seals.

I’m not sure what I failed to have addressed. Both these terms are used by pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath… There’s no great mystery behind the words “rapture” and “caught up”. You missed one in “our being gathered together”. There’s no contradiction in using these terms to describe a singular event, the Rapture. None whatsoever…

I focused on the words “wrath” and “tribulation” because you used them out of context. Did you endeavor to reference them in a Strong's Concordance? I’ll break it down, Thilipsis is the greek word translated “tribulations”. This word always means the Persecution of believers by non-believers. As believers will never escape persecution. Orgay is the greek word translated “wrath”, which is the judgment of God on non-believers. As believers will never experience the wrath of God.

“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name”

I have done teachings on the Gap Theory I have some threads on here about it.I started a comprehensive teaching on it but I have'nt worked on it for awhile,I need to finish it sometime.I think it is good so far though.

Cool. I’ll look forward to reading it someday.

DBowling wrote:I've mentioned this before, but I think a quick review is in order.

The most effective counter to the Gap Theory is Scripture itself. Specifically Genesis 1.

1. According to Scripture when does land first appear?
In Genesis 1:9-10, land doesn't even appear until Day 3... which occurs after Genesis 1:2. The reason the earth is covered with water in Genesis 1:2 is because land hasn't appeared yet.

2. According to Scripture when is plant life created?
In Genesis 1:11-12, God creates the first forms of plant life on Day 3... which again occurs after Genesis 1:2.

3. According to Scripture when is animal life created?
In Genesis 1:20-22, God creates animal life on Day 5... which again occurs after Genesis 1:2.

According to Genesis 1...
Dry land doesn't appear until after Genesis 1:2
Plant life isn't created until after Genesis 1:2
Animal life isn't created until after Genesis 1:2

There is no mention of a flood in Genesis 1:2... or anywhere in Genesis 1 for that matter. Genesis 1:2 is simply describing the state of the earth prior to the appearance of land.

The presuppositions that...
land appeared before Genesis 1:2, that God created plant life on earth before Genesis 1:2, that God created animal life before Genesis 1:2, and that a flood destroyed said life before Genesis 1:2 is all directly contradicted by what Scripture teaches in Genesis 1.

The Gap Theory is not only directly contradicted by science, it is also directly contradicted by Scripture itself.

DB bud,it is'nt so simple like you imply.It depends on alot more than you imply when reading Genesis 1.It even depends on which bible translation we go by.As you know many today insist the word "replenish" means "fill" but if the word "replenish" is right? Then see it is not so easy for you to declare Genesis 1 refutes the Gap Theory so easily.

Ask youself this,why would God tell Adam and Eve to "replenish" the earth is if there was no life before them? If there was life before them as science shows there were,why not realize the word "replenish" was right the whole time and the word "fill" is not right?

Think about this too before these new modern translations came along that have changed words around to give a young earth interpretation the KJV was the king of bibles and the KJV says "replenish" so the Gap Theory made sense before these modern translations changed these words around and even left out phrases the KJV had to give an old earth interpretation. You can disagree but if the word "replenish" was right then it means there was life on the earth before Adam and Eve and science confirms it is correct too.

But besides the word "replenish" giving us an old earth interpretation if we read and study Genesis 2:1-4 Moses stresses for us to know the difference between the words "bara-created" and "asah-made" and once we learn the difference between these two hebrew words it gives us a totally different interpretation when we read Genesis 1 than if we read it not knowing the difference assuming they are interchangeable and mean the same thing.

But they don't,even in english created and made do not mean the same thing and they don't in hebrew either. But once we read and study Genesis 2:1-4 and learn the difference between the hebrew words "bara" and "asah" it is also lets us know that there was life before God made and created the life he did in Genesis 1. So that now we have the word "replenish" and "bara" and Asah" telling us life existed before God made and created the life and stuff he did in Genesis 1.

But also by knowing the difference between the words "bara" and "asah" it also tells us that in Genesis 1 God is restoring or working on what is already there and not creating. The word "bara" is only used three times when we read Genesis 1 and it only applies to new stuff God created and it only has to do with certian animals and man where the word "bara" is used.

"asah"on the other hand is used much more in Genesis 1 though and this is never stuff that is new stuff,it is stuff that already exists or existed and God is just working on it to restore it. Now you may not agree with this but Gap Theorists did not just make this up to try to imagine an imaginary gap in Genesis 1,no, it is based on studying Genesis 2:1-4 and then applying it to Genesis 1 as we read through it and it gives us a different interpretation.

This is three examples of biblical evidence that not only tell us the earth is old and not young but that there was life before God made and created the life he did in Genesis 1 and that everything in Genesis 1 was just being restored also and not created new like you insist.This is one readon Gap Theorists have talked about a pre Adamite race of beings that once existed on this earth and science confirmed it true.It was like a revelation from God too when it was confirmed true even back in the 17 and 1800's when science made these discoveries that confirmed this inrepretation correct.

So what happened to that life?What happened to the stuff God is working on because it is broken and is not new stuff? I would say it is partly in the earth as coal,oil and fossils now. Now you may disagree with this however if I am correct like the KJV says I am then you are not reading Genesis 1 properly and I am.

Just these examples changes everything about Genesis 1 and how we read it. If there was life before God made and created the life in this world and we read Genesis 1:2 and can see the earth is in water then a flood makes sense and we can say that this life was totally wiped out in this flood and that there must have been a gap where everything creased and stopped for a time,until God spoke in Genesis 1:3 and started restoring what was already there and is broken and so God is just working on it to restore it not creating it new like so many insist.This is just focusing on Genesis 1 too and not other parts of the bible that confirmed it too.

abelcainsbrother wrote: Ask youself this,why would God tell Adam and Eve to "replenish" the earth is if there was no life before them? If there was life before them as science shows there were,why not realize the word "replenish" was right the whole time and the word "fill" is not right?

This highlights one of many significant Scriptural problems for the Gap Theory. As we've discussed before, God didn't tell mankind to 'replenish' the earth, in Genesis 1:28 God tells mankind to 'fill' the earth.
This argument for the Gap theory is built upon an archaic (from an English translation perspective) mistranslation.

if we read and study Genesis 2:1-4 Moses stresses for us to know the difference between the words "asah-created" and "bara-made" and once we learn the difference between these two hebrew words it gives us a totally different interpretation when we read Genesis 1 than if we read it not knowing the difference assuming they are interchangeable and mean the same thing.

I think you have it backwards there. 'Bara' is generally translated 'created', while 'asah' is translated 'made'.
The word 'bara' (created) is used to describe the creation of animal life in Genesis 1:21.
Which again provides difficulty for the Gap Theory assertion that, contrary to the Genesis 1 narrative, animals were created prior to Genesis 1:2.

DBowling wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote: Ask youself this,why would God tell Adam and Eve to "replenish" the earth is if there was no life before them? If there was life before them as science shows there were,why not realize the word "replenish" was right the whole time and the word "fill" is not right?

This highlights one of many significant Scriptural problems for the Gap Theory. As we've discussed before, God didn't tell mankind to 'replenish' the earth, in Genesis 1:28 God tells mankind to 'fill' the earth.
This argument for the Gap theory is built upon an archaic (from an English translation perspective) mistranslation.

if we read and study Genesis 2:1-4 Moses stresses for us to know the difference between the words "asah-created" and "bara-made" and once we learn the difference between these two hebrew words it gives us a totally different interpretation when we read Genesis 1 than if we read it not knowing the difference assuming they are interchangeable and mean the same thing.

I think you have it backwards there. 'Bara' is generally translated 'created', while 'asah' is translated 'made'.
The word 'bara' (created) is used to describe the creation of animal life in Genesis 1:21.
Which again provides difficulty for the Gap Theory assertion that, contrary to the Genesis 1 narrative, animals were created prior to Genesis 1:2.

OK but you have to atleast admit that up until these modern translations changed it to "fill" the Gap Theory was true according to the KJV,so you'll just choose a different interpretation,like so many do? But if the word "replenish" is right? I'm right and you're wrong to claim it means "fill" especially when science confirms "replenish" right and not "fill". You cannot go by science and then claim "fill" is right.You have to take it by blind faith to believe that interpretation.

You just don't have proper inderstanding of the words "bara" and "asah"

abelcainsbrother wrote:

DBowling wrote:

abelcainsbrother wrote: Ask youself this,why would God tell Adam and Eve to "replenish" the earth is if there was no life before them? If there was life before them as science shows there were,why not realize the word "replenish" was right the whole time and the word "fill" is not right?

This highlights one of many significant Scriptural problems for the Gap Theory. As we've discussed before, God didn't tell mankind to 'replenish' the earth, in Genesis 1:28 God tells mankind to 'fill' the earth.
This argument for the Gap theory is built upon an archaic (from an English translation perspective) mistranslation.

OK but you have to atleast admit that up until these modern translations changed it to "fill" the Gap Theory was true according to the KJV,so you'll just choose a different interpretation,like so many do?

No... the Gap theory has always contradicted the Genesis 1 narrative.
Genesis 1 has never said that dry land appeared before Genesis 1:2
Genesis 1 has never said that plant life was created before Genesis 1:2
Genesis 1 has never said that animal life was created before Genesis 1:2

And the Hebrew word used in Genesis 1:28 has always meant 'fill''. 'Replenish' is an incorrect archaic English translation made by the KJV translators.
The other English translations aren't changing a true translation. They are correcting the incorrect KJV translation.

If the Gap Theory is built upon an incorrect archaic English translation of Scripture, then that is just another evidence that the Gap Theory is not consistent with what Scripture actually says.