Evidence for God from Science

by Ottoman

Must one understand eternal security in order to be saved? I've heard some say that it IS part of the gospel and a necessary requirement for salvation. I've heard others say no, it's a growth, sanctification issue...a doctrinal issue that one learns after salvation. I've heard good arguments from both sides. Just curious what you guys think.

I am addressing the underlined text.

I do not believe it is part of the gospel and the only thing necessary for salvation is faith. The Bible says we are saved by faith alone not of works and it says works are just evidence that you are saved. They do not keep you saved or make you saved they are evidence of salvation.

RickD wrote:

Ottoman wrote:Must one understand eternal security in order to be saved? I've heard some say that it IS part of the gospel and a necessary requirement for salvation. I've heard others say no, it's a growth, sanctification issue...a doctrinal issue that one learns after salvation. I've heard good arguments from both sides. Just curious what you guys think.

As someone who unabashedly believes in eternal security, I don't think someone has to understand that he is secure in Christ, in order to be saved.

Believe in Christ. Trust in him for salvation. Period. That's all that's needed for salvation. The rest may or may not come as one grows and matures as a believer.

I agree, but when you ask someone if they trust in Christ and they say yes, then you ask them if there is anything they could do to lose their salvation and they say yes like murder/suicide...are they really trusting in Christ? Should we present them with biblical evidence for eternal security? The reason this all came up was because I heard someone say bringing up the issue of eternal security when witnessing can confuse people, because it has to do with their walk with Christ once they are saved. I tend to disagree. If a person is not convinced of their salvation, satan will tear them apart in their thinking, causing them to doubt and question their salvation.

"Murder/Suicide"

Why do you compare murder to suicide?

Ottoman wrote:

RickD wrote:

Ottoman wrote:Must one understand eternal security in order to be saved? I've heard some say that it IS part of the gospel and a necessary requirement for salvation. I've heard others say no, it's a growth, sanctification issue...a doctrinal issue that one learns after salvation. I've heard good arguments from both sides. Just curious what you guys think.

As someone who unabashedly believes in eternal security, I don't think someone has to understand that he is secure in Christ, in order to be saved.

Believe in Christ. Trust in him for salvation. Period. That's all that's needed for salvation. The rest may or may not come as one grows and matures as a believer.

I agree, but when you ask someone if they trust in Christ and they say yes, then you ask them if there is anything they could do to lose their salvation and they say yes like murder/suicide...are they really trusting in Christ? Should we present them with biblical evidence for eternal security? The reason this all came up was because I heard someone say bringing up the issue of eternal security when witnessing can confuse people, because it has to do with their walk with Christ once they are saved. I tend to disagree. If a person is not convinced of their salvation, satan will tear them apart in their thinking, causing them to doubt and question their salvation.

If I understand what you're saying, I think we have two separate issues.

1) if one trusts in Christ for salvation, one doesn't need to believe in eternal security, in order to have eternal life

2) if one doesn't believe in eternal security, that may hurt their walk with God, and/or cause doubt of his salvation to creep in. But we still need to remember that once one is secure in Christ, one is secure in Christ eternally.



So yes, I agree it's important to talk about eternal security with a believer. Having doubt about eternal security certainly can hinder one's spiritual growth as a believer.

Regarding eternal security -- at the instant of salvation the Holy Spirit comes to indwell each believer and doesn't leave us until we are safe with Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:30 " And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

2 Corinthians 1:21 - 22 "Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set His seal of ownership on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit , guaranteeing what is to come.

Some people don't like OSAS / eternal security because supposedly it gives the believer a license to do anything they want and still end up in heaven.

The fruits of the Spirit come into the picture -- a believer Will display those fruits in their lives -- if the person Doesn't - at all - then there's reason to be concerned as to their actual salvation. Hopefully, Christian brothers or sisters will care enough about that person to approach them with Biblical guidance / discipleshipping.

The Holy Spirit Will give the person New desires to read His Word / pray / to do things to please God. And there are people who've developed habits that need to be left behind. Sometimes those habits will disappear upon their salvation -- sometimes a 'sign' that salvation has actually taken place. Other times there will be habits that continue on in spite Of their salvation. But there will be a desire for those habits To be gone.

If there appears to be No change in the person who has professed salvation -- they continue in the same activities as usual, the same 'language' Everything the same, then it's time for someone to loving come up beside them and 'walk beside them' give guidance. Make sure they actually Have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

Since Jesus Christ Did rise again from the dead -- that was God's Power -- He is omnipotent -- all-powerful -- enough so to keep us saved until we are safe with Christ for eternity.

If you could lose your salvation, it begs the question of how God could have made such a mistake, as He sees ALL of the future perfectly. Does Jesus save someone He already foreknows He WILL eventually lose (an impossibility, according to Scripture)? Does Jesus not have the POWER to see through HIS salvation? Does God know the future or not? Does God not foreknow ALL He will do to make sure a saved person ends up with Him in Heaven?

WHO is it Scripture says "began a good work in you? And WHO "will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ?" Scripture says that Jesus is both the Initiator and the Completer of our salvation - we merely, as blind beggars, have been provided a glorious opportunity to merely accept what has only been made possible through Him (our salvation). Does Scripture not repeatedly say that God wants us to come to Him, that He wants to save us? So if saving a person is God's desire (and He only made it possible through HIS criteria (faith and commitment to Jesus), and as He has made that possible (through the Cross), is God's desire to save then, in ANY way, dependent upon MAN??? Is this stated desire of the Lord of the Universe to save subject to the frailties and sinful whims of sinful mortals? If so, then God is not sovereign, is without the power to save, and has subjected His desires in the matter of salvation to humans. But GOD is the one who saves. Plus, Jesus protects our salvation to its fruition of Heaven!

Hebrews 7:25: "Consequently, HE is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since HE always lives to make intercession for them."

2 Timothy 1:12: "But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed (Jesus!), and I am convinced that HE is able to guard until that Day (of Salvation) what has been entrusted to me."

John 17:9-16: "While I was with them, I (Jesus) kept them in your name, which You have given me. I (Jesus!) have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction (Judas), that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

Yes, Amen to that

RickD wrote:

Ottoman wrote:

RickD wrote:

Ottoman wrote:Must one understand eternal security in order to be saved? I've heard some say that it IS part of the gospel and a necessary requirement for salvation. I've heard others say no, it's a growth, sanctification issue...a doctrinal issue that one learns after salvation. I've heard good arguments from both sides. Just curious what you guys think.

As someone who unabashedly believes in eternal security, I don't think someone has to understand that he is secure in Christ, in order to be saved.

Believe in Christ. Trust in him for salvation. Period. That's all that's needed for salvation. The rest may or may not come as one grows and matures as a believer.

I agree, but when you ask someone if they trust in Christ and they say yes, then you ask them if there is anything they could do to lose their salvation and they say yes like murder/suicide...are they really trusting in Christ? Should we present them with biblical evidence for eternal security? The reason this all came up was because I heard someone say bringing up the issue of eternal security when witnessing can confuse people, because it has to do with their walk with Christ once they are saved. I tend to disagree. If a person is not convinced of their salvation, satan will tear them apart in their thinking, causing them to doubt and question their salvation.

If I understand what you're saying, I think we have two separate issues.

1) if one trusts in Christ for salvation, one doesn't need to believe in eternal security, in order to have eternal life

2) if one doesn't believe in eternal security, that may hurt their walk with God, and/or cause doubt of his salvation to creep in. But we still need to remember that once one is secure in Christ, one is secure in Christ eternally.



So yes, I agree it's important to talk about eternal security with a believer. Having doubt about eternal security certainly can hinder one's spiritual growth as a believer.

RIght, I don't think one must believe in eternal security in order to be saved, although it doesn't hurt and, in my opinion, is critical to one's walk with Christ, because we are called to grow in grace. If a person doesn't believe in eternal security, they will continue to focus on themselves and not Christ.

RickD wrote:

jpbg33 wrote:I'm sorry guys it was not RickD that wrote the article it was Rich Deen.

But still you can see where Rich Deen was wrong in his interpretation of the parable and that is not the only flow in it there are more.

It's Deem. Rich Deem!!!!

My first giggle of the day

Nessa wrote:

RickD wrote:

jpbg33 wrote:I'm sorry guys it was not RickD that wrote the article it was Rich Deen.

But still you can see where Rich Deen was wrong in his interpretation of the parable and that is not the only flow in it there are more.

It's Deem. Rich Deem!!!!

My first giggle of the day

Usually when a joke is made, it's customary to giggle right after the joke is made. Not 4 months later.

I'll forgive you for being slow, because you are blonde, and a female.

oops my mistake*









*some people have a life outside of the board

Nessa wrote:

oops my mistake*









*some people have a life outside of the board

Not me. I'm stuck inside the board. Kinda like Tron, except I have no way to win, and escape this virtual reality.

RickD wrote:

Nessa wrote:

oops my mistake*









*some people have a life outside of the board

Not me. I'm stuck inside the board. Kinda like Tron, except I have no way to win, and escape this virtual reality.

More like wreck it ralph...

John 6:37 - All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will NEVER cast out.

Seems pretty secure to me.

So if I accepted Jesus and sin does that mean I wasn't true in accepting Jesus?