Evidence for God from Science

Philip wrote:I think that if Satan didn't know Jesus was God, it would be surprising. He certainly highly suspected it, as he had zeroed in on this one, then-unremarkable man. But Satan also had to know of the prophecies of the child to be born, and WHERE, and that He would be considered Holy God. He certainly was in some way responsible for all of the children put to death in the vicinity of Bethlehem. Did NO demon see the night sky filled with angels announcing Jesus' birth? Did he not know of the star that guided the wise men? Satan knew of all of these things, and no doubt had been watchful of the child born in Bethlehem. And if the Matthew 4 temptation account is chronological in time, how then would Satan have gone to this one, poor Jewish carpenter? And while Satan could inspire murder, he obviously had certain constraints upon what he could do to Jesus, the Apostles, and those within God's plans.

If Satan knew Jesus was God...why enter Judas? Why hasten the Crucifixion? Doesn't make sense.

Blessed wrote: If Satan knew Jesus was God...why enter Judas? Why hasten the Crucifixion? Doesn't make sense.

From Satan's perspective it makes perfect sense, and for a brief moment Satan probably considered the murder of Jesus to be his greatest victory against God.

Satan is not God's peer. Satan may be a powerful spirit being but he is still a created being.
Satan is not all powerful.
Satan is not all knowing.
Satan does not know the future.

So when the Word (who was with God and who was God) emptied himself and became flesh, Satan could have easily thought that God had put himself in a vulnerable position.
By killing Jesus, Satan could have thought he was ending or at least delaying the Kingdom of God that Jesus talked so much about.
And to have one of Jesus' inner circle of disciples play a role in betraying Jesus could be perceived as a master stroke against God.

Since Satan was not omniscient and did not know the future, he was unaware that what he thought would be his greatest victory against God would backfire horribly when Jesus defeated sin and death and rose from the dead.

DBowling: Since Satan was not omniscient and did not know the future, he was unaware that what he thought would be his greatest victory against God would backfire horribly when Jesus defeated sin and death and rose from the dead.

Which shows that even Satan can be used as a tool for God, for good.

"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good..." (Genesis 50:20)

PaulSacramento wrote:
Indeed, yet he never strikes out at God.
At His creation, yes, His angels, for sure, His chosen people, yes, but not at God directly.

That's cuz satan's a troll.

PaulSacramento wrote

If Satan knew that Jesus was the Son of God, the one that created him along with all the other divine beings, why would he think he could tempt him?

I guess you are talking about the same Satan that thought he could over throw God in heaven.

sure he knew who Jesus was.

remember the store of the 3 wise men and the king how the king tried to kill Jesus as a baby. Are you saying that people knew he was Jesus before Satan knew? Really!

Satan may have thought he could appeal to Jesus' human nature, so as to trip him up into mortal sin.

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 2:35 pm Satan may have thought he could appeal to Jesus' human nature, so as to trip him up into mortal sin.

Yes, and no.
There is no indication that Satan understood WHO and WHAT Jesus was.
I mean, Jesus created Satan so why would Satan think that HE would somehow bow to him?
They way that Satan speaks to Jesus implies that he doesn't think that Jesus is divine.
he always says to Jesus, "IF..."
I think that Satan knew there was something about Jesus, he didn't know what and certainly had no idea about THE plan.

Jesus created Satan so why would Satan think that HE would somehow bow to him?

Perhaps for the same reason he thought he could overthrow heaven? There is something about giving immense power to the ultimate narcissist and megalomaniac that produces delusional thinking - he was blinded by his own hubris and arrogance.

Blessed wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:31 pm If Jesus is God and not God's son.

God is beyond temptation. So how could God be tempted by Satan 40/40 while walking the earth if Jesus was God?

Matthew 4:

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."

How could Satan "give" God what was God's to begin with? And why would God "take the bait" for something as puny as the kingdoms of the world at that time.

Doesn't make sense. Unless Jesus was the son of God and not actually God. I.E. two separate deities. The father is greater than the Son. So for the son it was temptation. Because Jesus was the Son of God. Assigned to humanity as our savior.

Everyone who says the son of God = God .... is forgetting the Father. The Jews do not accept Christ but at least they do not forget who God is.

The reason Jesus is called the son of God is because he was born into this world just like we are through our mothers womb.This is how we can call Jesus the son of God,yet he was still God in human flesh also.Jesus had to live a perfect sinnless life and even be tempted by Satan just like we are in order to pay for our sins and salvation on the cross. If God had come to this earth any other way than like we do we could'nt relate to him and he'd be more like an alien.But because he was born into this world just like we are he has a father just like we do. God humbles himself as God almighty in order to be born into this world fully human like we are.I think the problem is you've been reading a Jehovah Witness bible that has been translated to say what they want it to say.

You can detect this by going to bible hub or bible gateway.com and look up Acts 20:28 in the KJV,the NASB,the ESV,etc and then get the Jehovah Witness bible and look up the same verse Acts 20:28 and read it and you'll see how they changed it to deny Jesus is God. Read this verse here in the NASB Acts 20:28 and post this word for word and tell us what it is saying.Do it now,please.Then get your Jehovah Witness bible and do the same thing post it and tell us what you think it is saying. I think you'll see what I mean.I want you to post them for us and tell us what they are saying and tell us which translation you believe.

Lotsa Versions. For you too.
https://youtu.be/zVCi-Mebb-c

John 14:28

"My Father is greater than I"

Come on man ... it doesn't get any more simple than John 14:28 and the too many numerous to count verses saying the same ...

John 8:58

"Before Abraham was born I am".

The angels ... are deities, spirits are deities, The "sons of God" deities, the dark side - deities .. this all suggests a type of Polytheism .. Jesus was the highest Son of God. He was born into this world as a man per physics .. because mortal form was needed for sacrifice ..

And per Genesis there were other Son's of God .. before Noah .. which came to earth to have sex with women ... and the only logical way they could have done this ... is to manifest in human form somehow .. by birth or spontaneously materializing ...or possession of some sort .... Jacob wrestled with God - as a man in human form ..


For every cherry picked verse which can be interpreted as Jesus IS God I see many others saying he is the Son and even his words in the NT. And by the way .... The KJV is only relevant English bible .. The rest (NIV, NAB, NMV) are pure hearsays .... and it would make logical sense to me the people who wrote them are getting what's coming to them per Revelation 22:18 and Revelation 22:19

I will not replace the God of the Old Testament for Jesus nor will I disregard the 10 commandments or throw out the OT.
The conflict I am having is commandment #1 and Christians saying Jesus IS God when Jesus is the SON of God .. as though the prince supplants the King ;... and Jesus somehow supplants Jehovah. Not gonna happen.

Philip wrote: ↑Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:56 am

Jesus created Satan so why would Satan think that HE would somehow bow to him?

Perhaps for the same reason he thought he could overthrow heaven? There is something about giving immense power to the ultimate narcissist and megalomaniac that produces delusional thinking - he was blinded by his own hubris and arrogance.

Don't know man...That doesn't explain the "IF" parts.
There was no way that Satan was aware of God's plan nor was he fully aware of who and what Jesus was, if he had been I am sure he would have done all possible for Jesus NOT to be crucified.

Blessed wrote: ↑Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:01 am John 14:28

"My Father is greater than I"

Come on man ... it doesn't get any more simple than John 14:28 and the too many numerous to count verses saying the same ...

John 8:58

"Before Abraham was born I am".

The angels ... are deities, spirits are deities, The "sons of God" deities, the dark side - deities .. this all suggests a type of Polytheism .. Jesus was the highest Son of God. He was born into this world as a man per physics .. because mortal form was needed for sacrifice ..

And per Genesis there were other Son's of God .. before Noah .. which came to earth to have sex with women ... and the only logical way they could have done this ... is to manifest in human form somehow .. by birth or spontaneously materializing ...or possession of some sort .... Jacob wrestled with God - as a man in human form ..


For every cherry picked verse which can be interpreted as Jesus IS God I see many others saying he is the Son and even his words in the NT. And by the way .... The KJV is only relevant English bible .. The rest (NIV, NAB, NMV) are pure hearsays .... and it would make logical sense to me the people who wrote them are getting what's coming to them per Revelation 22:18 and Revelation 22:19

I will not replace the God of the Old Testament for Jesus nor will I disregard the 10 commandments or throw out the OT.
The conflict I am having is commandment #1 and Christians saying Jesus IS God when Jesus is the SON of God .. as though the prince supplants the King ;... and Jesus somehow supplants Jehovah. Not gonna happen.

Are you suggesting that Jesus is just like all of the other Sons of God ?
The bible is clear that Jesus was the one the created all - Colossians 1:16 and that He is God - John 1:1 and so forth.
This means that Jesus has the same nature as God, do you disagree with this?

Blessed,

Let me see if I can explain your theology in a nutshell:

1) Christians must follow Old Testament law(not sure what the purpose is)

2) Christians are anyone who believes in any christ, regardless of if they believe in the biblical Christ, who is God.

Is that pretty accurate?

Blessed, you should quit skimming over the Bible and actually do some comprehensive study of it!

Let's start with on of the most important Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament about the nature of Jesus:

Isaiah 9:6 - written about seven centuries before the birth of Christ (KJV): "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14: "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"

Matthew 1:23: "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which translated means, "God with us."

"John 10:30: "I and the Father are ONE."

John 14:9: "Jesus said to him, "...He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, `Show us the Father?'"

1 Timothy 3:16: "GOD was manifest in the flesh."

1 Timothy 6:15: "... our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords."

Hebrews 1:8: "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever..."

Titus 2:13: "...the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus"

2 Peter 1:1: "by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ"

Revelation 19:16: "And on His robe and on His thigh He [Jesus] has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

The famous doubting disciple, Thomas, finally realizes who Jesus is, as he sees him post resurrection (John 17:5):

"Thomas answered and said to Him [Jesus], "My Lord and my God!"

Why do you think the Jews wanted to kill Jesus - as they knew He was claiming to be God?

"For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:33)

Jesus was sinless and perfect - and yet, isn't only God perfect? Jesus accepted worship, and yet the Bible asserts us to never worship anyone but God. Some thought the apostles should be bowed to and worshiped - and yet they admonished those who did this, correcting them that only God should be worshiped.

And there is a LOT more - Did Jesus claim to be God? http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.html

Seems to be another case of confusing what God is ( God) with the term GOD being His name or something.