Evidence for God from Science

Is salvation simple - answer is -- NO.

It takes a lifetime for some folks to be broken enough to surrender...

Is salvation simple - answer is YES, as Jesus revealed about the sinner who prayed, "Have mercy on me, I am a sinner..."

So, the salvation prayer is biblical and endorsed in red by Jesus himself as that is what it takes to become save

God saves folks who cry out to him and return to him at any age. When Jesus really has your heart, you change over time and follow him and his ways and his teachings from the bible. You endure trials, testing, and suffering. Go thru times of plenty and happiness ever growing closer to him never shaken by the good and bad times. You find yourself helping others as the Lord helped you.

God remakes and shapes your heart in this life. The prayer is simple to get started and from there, salvation is lived out in one's mortal life.
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B. W. wrote:When Jesus really has your heart, you change over time and follow him and his ways and his teachings from the bible. You endure trials, testing, and suffering. Go thru times of plenty and happiness ever growing closer to him never shaken by the good and bad times. You find yourself helping others as the Lord helped you

God remakes and shapes your heart in this life.

What would you say to those Christians who feel the opposite over time? If your words here are fully true, then perhaps, I'm not saved as I often feel the longer I live, the less happy, isolated, depressed, failing, less Christ-like and stable. Yet, my hope in Christ is nonetheless immovable, I can't see not ever being without Christ.

You might backtrack a little to say such is how things ought to play out, but in saying when "Jesus really has your heart", which I understand to be "truly has our heart", aren't you creating some kind of litmus test to judge between "Christians" who are truly saved and those who aren't... one that is kind of works based?

If so, then such imo is a false test and your words aren't entirely true. But then, what else is a Christian who feels miserable and often like they're failing God going to say? If you truly mean such words, I'd prefer you speak them boldly and support such thoughts Scripturally rather than backtrack. I know words like you've said above, they make sense in theory, but then I don't believe they are always true, maybe not even true for a large percentage or perhaps majority of Christians who understand the Gospel and hope in Christ.

As for myself, as a Christian, I feel I've become less stable and whole over time. Life hasn't been what I expected or hoped, particularly with my own family and the spiritual side of things which is what matters to me most. Perhaps I am being hard myself, but I don't think I am, but if my life ought to have progressed in certain positive directions like you said, I think if anything the reverse has happened. I've become more unhappy, dissatisfied, irratable, annoyed, angry, grumpy, I feel less loving of people and society in general. Does Jesus therefore not really have my heart?

PS. I realise I've really honed in on your words above, on the back of something else you are trying to say, but nonetheless I saw it as mportant to put the magnifying glass on to discuss.

Whatever our stage of life, our disappointments, our sense of failures - all of these are common to those in relationship with Jesus. These are all things that go on DESPITE of our relationship with God. And the more properly we understand God's standard and His measures of holiness, the more broken and flawed we recognize we are, and the more angry we will often be at the messed up world and people around us. And our level of finding peace and certainty amidst all of these anxieties is very much dependent upon our maintaining our relationship with God and our level of trusting and depending upon Him.

Because when we neglect our relationship, our trust and sense of security in Christ tend to weaken. The more we look around us and spend far more time focusing on our troubles, worries and disappointments, rather than looking up to God for our comfort and solutions, the less peace we will experience. And the more we will be blown away in disarray by our constantly changing feelings. God wants to bring us a MORE abundant life - which isn't situationally dependent. Thing is, we desperately and constantly need God. And there are so many lessons about that which we appear to need re-learning, over and over again.

Kurieuo wrote:

B. W. wrote:When Jesus really has your heart, you change over time and follow him and his ways and his teachings from the bible. You endure trials, testing, and suffering. Go thru times of plenty and happiness ever growing closer to him never shaken by the good and bad times. You find yourself helping others as the Lord helped you

God remakes and shapes your heart in this life.

What would you say to those Christians who feel the opposite over time? If your words here are fully true, then perhaps, I'm not saved as I often feel the longer I live, the less happy, isolated, depressed, failing, less Christ-like and stable. Yet, my hope in Christ is nonetheless immovable, I can't see not ever being without Christ.

I have to deal with this all the time with folks and went thru this myself. God sometimes lets us whither and waste way for many reasons. Here are a few: One we believe lies (like I am no good, worthless, can't do it, or one is the greatest and can do things in own strength and power)

Two: we open doors to the enemy to come in and live with us by things we watch, read, and hang out with.

Three: Open to the being wise in ones own eyes - know it all so much that one has more faith in doubt than God

And there are more. These wound the Heart and need to be dealt with. The wounds in the heart that we get from life and sin and the lies we are told to believe hinder and stop up God's flow in our lives.

For example, if we believe lies then we reflect those lies in our lives. If named or labeled loser, you never about to anything, big brother of sister is better than you, you ain't worth an plug nickle, get me another bear doormat or I will beat you, I hate you, your are accident prone, this family line has the worst temper, well - it effects us in our walk with the Lord and cause us to seek cures or band aids to cover the pain-shame-etc.

Band aids of pornography, lust, power and control trips, being a self righteously sanctimonious know it all, wise in ones ways. Lording it over others, beings a doormat, endless cycles and losing battles with sin because it gives one their purpose to be punished or live in constant drama because of the tramma - ponder these things...

Next, God's word and light shines in our hearts to sanctify us and how he does is clearly explained in Psalms 107:1-43 and I make mention that folks read it and ponder it and go before God and prayer and ask for him to explain it...

That Psalms saved my life during the darkest time in my Christian walk as I had many band aids - the main being pride and believing the lie that our family line had the worst tempers on earth and another mentality passed on in the family line that thought - if it weren't for bad luck we'd have no luck at all.

Pride was the big issue I was blind too. God had to let me whither away to break me of it - he did. I am on guard against it now everyday. I went thru a vast spiritual desert. God was nowhere to be found. My prayers hit a iron ceiling and went no further. I saw others blessed but I wasn't. I acted like an uncontrolled and untamed pit bull and was my band aid I used to hide my pride.

Amen - Psalms 107:1-43 is tuff on the soul but living thru it - well - causes you to understand the lovingkindness of the Lord that sets you free from the games we play that stop our walk cold.

So, How do I deal with this in other folks?

Answer - By being Gentle... I share the word, and teach them to pray then walk thru them on how to be free of this by praying that the Lord reveal the wounds of the heart and help them walk out of it by power of the Lord...

If I may ask, with no ill will or any innuendos - what do you do for folks who struggle?

Kurieuo wrote:You might backtrack a little to say such is how things ought to play out, but in saying when "Jesus really has your heart", which I understand to be "truly has our heart", aren't you creating some kind of litmus test to judge between "Christians" who are truly saved and those who aren't... one that is kind of works based?

If so, then such imo is a false test and your words aren't entirely true. But then, what else is a Christian who feels miserable and often like they're failing God going to say? If you truly mean such words, I'd prefer you speak them boldly and support such thoughts Scripturally rather than backtrack. I know words like you've said above, they make sense in theory, but then I don't believe they are always true, maybe not even true for a large percentage or perhaps majority of Christians who understand the Gospel and hope in Christ.

As for myself, as a Christian, I feel I've become less stable and whole over time. Life hasn't been what I expected or hoped, particularly with my own family and the spiritual side of things which is what matters to me most. Perhaps I am being hard myself, but I don't think I am, but if my life ought to have progressed in certain positive directions like you said, I think if anything the reverse has happened. I've become more unhappy, dissatisfied, irratable, annoyed, angry, grumpy, I feel less loving of people and society in general. Does Jesus therefore not really have my heart?

No - no litmus test as you put it.

You see, Jesus said in Luke 18:9-14 in the Parable this:

Luke 18:9-12, Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'

Luke18:13-14, And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." NKJV

The person who became saved - did do so thru prayer, a simple prayer, but notice the metaphor of beating ones breast...

He was convicted of his sins, tired of trying to save himself in the things he did, tired of never finding freedom from the guilt shame and pain of life that He cried of to God and was saved and was made right in God's sight the Eph 2:8-10 way.

This brings to make this point:

We limited the word - conviction - as used in John 16:8 as either a bad word that is not very seeker sensitive friendly to the world or limt its meaning to only mean the metaphor of beating one's breast to come to Jesus.

There are different types of conviction

One is a pull to find Jesus and hang on to him no matter what because Jesus has the answer, the plan, healing, etc one needs. In turn they never let go of him no matter the ways of life, Ps 107:1-43, takes them. They simply never let go and live a sanctified life.

Another is the pull to feel the weight of sin and guilty bearing down on you and you cry out to be saved as the man did in the parable mentioned above.

Both involve a sort of rescue and drawing to the Lord in a manner difficult to put into words. In fact, some folks here mentioned they were saved when young by that drawing to God to just follow him.Others - felt the weight of sin or came to the end of themselves.

Fact is, God's will for us who believe is what?

Sanctification as it is written in 2 Th 2:13, 1 Th 4:3-4, 1 Peter 1:2.. If one does not like these verses please argue with God about it - not me.

Thru that reality comes the part of Ephesians chapter two so often ignored and taught against as being unnecessary and that is the verse that comes after Ephesians 2:8,9 which is Eph 2:10.

The result of such ignoring and downplaying is that Christian people remain enslaved to their band aids, and wounded hearts, and seldom find relief and drift away from church or become more enslaved in the lies they believed until the Lord brings them out of it the Ps 107:1-13 way.

I am not the one who does the work, nor or any of us. The Holy Spirit works in us God's good pleasure howsoever He wills. I bear the light he gave me to bear to pass on the freedom and purpose for life he has for those drawn to him.

Beginning of the month I was on Cheyennes River Rez. I watched the Lord lead 21 people to himself in four days and most were draw on the last day of the meetings. Jesus also healed many from being suicidal. That is the light He has for me to bear to people - Himself - he does the work and by those who are on his team by means of team work.

Those folks saved need covered in prayer and follow up which the ministers and team already there will do and are doing. Each one saved is now on a journey and with that I trust the Lord on to keep them and may the Numbers 6:24-27 NKJV blessings be upon them all as it is written:

"The LORD bless you and keep you;
The LORD make His face shine upon you, And be gracious to you;
The LORD lift up His countenance upon you, And give you peace." '
So they shall put My name on the children of Israel, and I will bless them."

During their time learning of the lovingkindness of the Lord.
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P.S. The way I look at it. I am on the way to the promise land. I have seen it and the giants blocking the way are nothing for the Lord has given us the land. So one can either choose to remain going around in the desert in an endless loop or instead use that time to learn how to do battle against the giants and take the promise land. Choice is each ones own to make.

I wasnt trying to express my own belief that prayer itself saves but the mentality of lots of others who think they just have to say a few words and that they are heaven bound.

Salvation is simple enough for anyone to be saved but it also can be a weighty complex decision. I am just saying that there can be alot of false conversions under the guise that its simple and you can have your cake and eat it too kind of mentality

The bible says to count the cost.

Salvation is easy for those who by faith believe in Jesus.It all starts with faith in Jesus Christ and what he did for us to be saved.I do believe by faith a person must ask to be saved but once a person has been saved the Holy Sprit does the rest and changes them on the inside to serve God.

A person must be born again to be a Christian.It is a Spritual birth which the bible describes as becoming a new creature in Christ Jesus. Unless a person has been saved by Jesus they are not a Christian but are just acting like a Christian.

In all other religions a person changes themselves to follow the laws,rules,rituals,etc of their particular religion,but this will not work in Christianity. A person cannot just wake up one day and decide I'm going to be a Christian and change thenselves to be one,no,they must be born again to become a Christian.

Also it is God who convicts them with the Holy Spirit and draws them to Jesus to be saved.And they must respond at that time,not their own time.The bible tells us faith cometh by hearing and by hearing the word of God.When the gospel is preached the Holy Spirit is at work drawing men to Christ and the person must respond at this time,when being drawn/convicted by the Holy Spirit.It is not on their own time,but when the Holy Spirit is drawing them to Christ that they can respond.

If a person believes in Jesus by faith then it should be no problem for them to be saved by him,they will want to,however I think we would be shocked at the people who claim to be Christians who have never truly been saved by Jesus and are just acting like a Christian.

Being born again is simple but the walk is not.

I have just finished a book, Life, In Spite of Me by Kristen Jane Anderson.
She is a truly inspring, courageous,humble woman who at 17 tried to commit suicide by laying down on a railway track. She lost both her legs.
Her story brought me to tears and reading about her walk with Christ moved me so much. Her book includes personal messages between some of the chapters for readers and her honesty with how she felt, her struggles, confusion and doubt and her growing trust and love for Christ is absolutely beautiful.

Coming to Christ and being saved is as simple as allowing Him into your heart.

coming to Jesus was for me a loooooong journey.
10+ years.
But our Father is patient.
Fortunately

I would say it's indeed simple, "Turn to me and be saved" (Isa. 45:22), but the way to life is full of pressure, and narrow:

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Mt 7:13–14)

So we need to seek the Lord wholeheartedly, and this is the difficult part. But those who seek find, and to him who knocks the door is opened (Luke 11:10).

Blessings,
Lee

B. W. wrote:When Jesus really has your heart, you change over time and follow him and his ways and his teachings from the bible. You endure trials, testing, and suffering. Go thru times of plenty and happiness ever growing closer to him never shaken by the good and bad times. You find yourself helping others as the Lord helped you

God remakes and shapes your heart in this life.

Kurieuo wrote:What would you say to those Christians who feel the opposite over time? If your words here are fully true, then perhaps, I'm not saved as I often feel the longer I live, the less happy, isolated, depressed, failing, less Christ-like and stable. Yet, my hope in Christ is nonetheless immovable, I can't see not ever being without Christ.

I say what has wounded your heart? That is the real issue. People, we all, experience traumas, rejection, being abandoned, falsely accused, hurt emotionally, abandoned in life. Often we grow up in families that show no true affection/closeness or the opposite really dysfunctional families, therefore, we learn to view this all as normal life.

These are the things that cause us not to know God and ride the roller coaster of being up one day all for the Lord and next day crash. We all been there. I do counsel and pray for Christians regarding your question all the time...with this in mind...

2 Co 1:3-5, Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ.

That is how it works. Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit by the new Birth and we are empowered by the same Spirit that Raised Jesus from the Dead which is the power of the Resurrection. That aspect is often forgotten. So if Rom 8:29 is true then Isaiah 61:1,2,3,4 is true for us as we have been anointed by the Holy Spirit and Jesus did not leave us as orphans to live in according to our woundedness.

Good news to those crushed in Spirit, you don't have to remain crushed our wounded

Heal the shattered (broken) Heart...

Proclaim liberty to those always being led astray (Captive)...

Opening the prisons which people hide in and find themselves bound - shackled too

Proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, And the day of vengeance of our God;

"To comfort all who mourn, To console those who mourn in Zion, To give them beauty for ashes, The oil of joy for mourning, The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; That they may be called trees of righteousness, The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified. And they shall rebuild the old ruins, They shall raise up the former desolations, And they shall repair the ruined cities, The desolations of many generations," Isaiah 61:2-4 NKJV

Remind them of the promise of Isaiah 44:3 is valid today and then help walk them through it by prayer and listening to them.

Kurieuo wrote:You might backtrack a little to say such is how things ought to play out, but in saying when "Jesus really has your heart", which I understand to be "truly has our heart", aren't you creating some kind of litmus test to judge between "Christians" who are truly saved and those who aren't... one that is kind of works based?

No...no litmus test - I do not adhere to a Christianize blacksmith approach of self works, litmus test, etc.

What I find is this: As people get free and shut the doors and windows left upon by traumas suffered, believing lies about oneself, and sin - people's issues vanish away in time. They do become free and stop opening these doors and they begin their own journey in his or her Christian walk learning to close the doors and windows of their soul they leave open that the devil exploits to keep folks comfortable sitting in the churches pews enjoying their own stench.

Now, a person doesn't have too close any doors or windows, but one must ask him or herself - how is it working for you?

Jesus came to break this cycle. How - by the power of the Blood of Jesus shed to forgive sins/transgressions, that cleanses us of daily issues where we don't cut it, etc, and to bring peace as in wholeness/soundness of heart, soul and mind. And realizing that due to the Resurrection power already inside us By the Holy Spirit, He did not leave us orphans, and will help raise us up out of the ash heap of life which we live...

For many the reason why this is not easy is simply one grows accustom and comfortable in misery as it is the only world they know. One bad prison to be in. So getting free takes time for some and others tire of it and shed it by the power of God working in them where they are no longer controlled by roller coaster ride, the despair, seeking attention, addictions of all types, and by God's power raised out of it and testify of the freedom He brings - living in it.

Again, a person doesn't have too close any doors or windows where the thief comes into to murder, rob, and ruin life, but one must ask him or herself - how is it working for you?

Kurieuo wrote:If so, then such imo is a false test and your words aren't entirely true. But then, what else is a Christian who feels miserable and often like they're failing God going to say? If you truly mean such words, I'd prefer you speak them boldly and support such thoughts Scripturally rather than backtrack. I know words like you've said above, they make sense in theory, but then I don't believe they are always true, maybe not even true for a large percentage or perhaps majority of Christians who understand the Gospel and hope in Christ.

I suggest to people to ponder the words of Isaiah 44:1-5 with the Hebrew name meanings added (by root meaning and contextual meaning) to the NKJV version quoted below:

Isa 44:1 "Yet hear me now, O Jacob (Heal Garbing supplanter) My servant, And Israel (strives with God) whom I have chosen.
Isa 44:2 Thus says the LORD who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you: 'Fear not, O Jacob (Heal Garbing supplanter) My servant; And you, Jeshurun, (Those made Up-right) whom I have chosen.

Isa 44:3 For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground;

I will pour My Spirit on your descendants, And My blessing on your offspring;

Isa 44:4 They will spring up among the grass Like willows by the watercourses.'

Isa 44:5 One will say, 'I am the LORD's'; Another will call himself by the name of Jacob (Heal Garbing supplanter of the devils kingdom); Another will write with his hand, 'The LORD's,' And name himself by the name of Israel (Prevailer and strives with God).

Read Isa 44:6,7,8 - God puts his own name on this... Acts 2:17,39 says what?

Isaiah 44:9-20 explains that folks put hope in their idols of the blacksmith and craftsman meaning their own ideas, own measure of success, formals, rituals, earn their gits form god, destiny, or fate by deal making. Have more faith in doubt than God used in some sort of dare to God that he can't set anyone free so one doesn't feel the heart wounds of rejection, abandonment, neglect, betrayal humiliation again.

Isa 44:21 "Remember these, O Jacob (Heal Garbing supplanter of the devils kingdom), And Israel (Prevails with God), for you are My servant; I have formed you, you are My servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me!

Isa 44:22 I have blotted out, like a thick cloud, your transgressions, And like a cloud, your sins. Return to Me, for I have redeemed you."
Isa 44:23 Sing, O heavens, for the LORD has done it! Shout, you lower parts of the earth; Break forth into singing, you mountains, O forest, and every tree in it! For the LORD has redeemed Jacob, And glorified Himself in Israel.
Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;
Isa 44:25 Who frustrates the signs of the babblers, And drives diviners mad; Who turns wise men backward, And makes their knowledge foolishness;
Isa 44:26 Who confirms the word of His servant, And performs the counsel of His messengers; Who says to Jerusalem (the place of the Foundations of peace. wholeness, soundness [of heart and soul]), 'You shall be inhabited,' To the cities of Judah (Praise), 'You shall be built,' And I will raise up her waste places;

Isa 44:27 Who says to the deep (Metaphorically in bible means the abyss), 'Be dry! And I will dry up your rivers'...

People live too long drinking polluted waters from the abyss and rely on their rivers - ponder that

Isa 44:28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." '

Now we can pat ourselves on the back and say, this verse has only to do with Cyrus of old and say this whole chapter is only applicable way back then and not now. The works of the blacksmith and craftsman are so very evident in the church world today, aren't they. That is why folks don't find freedom...

Isa 44:28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem (Foundation of peace, wholeness soundness of heart and soul), "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." '

We are the new temple of the Holy Spirit - he did not leave us orphans.

Isa 44:1 "Yet hear me now, O Jacob My servant, And Israel whom I have chosen.
Isa 44:2 Thus says the LORD who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you: 'Fear not, O Jacob

Isa 44:3 For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground...

For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground...

For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground;

..I will pour My Spirit on your descendants, And My blessing on your offspring...

Isa 44:4 They will spring up among the grass Like willows by the watercourses.'

Isa 44:5 One will say, 'I am the LORD's'; Another will call himself by the name of Jacob (Heal Garbing supplanter of the devils kingdom); Another will write with his hand, 'The LORD's,' And name himself by the name of Israel (Prevailer with strives with God).

Kurieuo wrote:As for myself, as a Christian, I feel I've become less stable and whole over time. Life hasn't been what I expected or hoped, particularly with my own family and the spiritual side of things which is what matters to me most. Perhaps I am being hard myself, but I don't think I am, but if my life ought to have progressed in certain positive directions like you said, I think if anything the reverse has happened. I've become more unhappy, dissatisfied, irritable, annoyed, angry, grumpy, I feel less loving of people and society in general. Does Jesus therefore not really have my heart?

Welcome to the human race! Good news - Jesus came to actually save us and set us free!

Again suggest you ponder this

For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground; I will pour My Spirit on your descendants, And My blessing on your offspring;

Are you thirsty? living in a desert?

What wells do you drink out of as manner of life - waters and rivers from the abyss? Craftsman, Blacksmith?

For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground; I will pour My Spirit on your descendants, And My blessing on your offspring;

... Who confirms the word of His servant, And performs the counsel of His messengers; Who says to Jerusalem (the place of the Foundations of peace. wholeness, soundness [of heart and soul]), 'You shall be inhabited,' To the cities of Judah (Praise), 'You shall be built,' And I will raise up her waste places;

..."Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. And who can proclaim as I do?

...Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, Let them show these to them.

..Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.'"

...Who says to the deep (the abyss), 'Be dry! And I will dry up your rivers'...

For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground; I will pour My Spirit on your descendants, And My blessing on your offspring;

Whom do you believe?

I had to, one day, cry out to the Lord how thirsty I was and so tired of living in a desert - I found the answer...

He indeed will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground...

I will pour My Spirit on your descendants, And My blessing on your offspring...

You've now responded twice to my post and I feel very priviledged. It's not that I didn't read your first either. More and more, I start off responding, aren't happy with my words, and just leave to return to it another time. So I actually have half a response that I never posted. I'll read over your posts and respond, if I don't forget.

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:39 pm You've now responded twice to my post and I feel very priviledged. It's not that I didn't read your first either. More and more, I start off responding, aren't happy with my words, and just leave to return to it another time. So I actually have haf a response, that I never posted. I'll read over your posts and respond, if I don't forget.

Hate to be so wordy...

Sometimes need a back drop to make simple point.

At one time in my life K - I read and re-read and studied Isaiah chapter 44 applying the standard meanings and Hebrew grammar. Never saw anything until, like you, I went through the wringer in life.

I then read that chapter again after thinking I would throw in the towel - where is God in all this. My Eyes fell on verse 3.

Isa 44:3, For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground; I will pour My Spirit on your descendants, And My blessing on your offspring... NKJV

Verse one and two opened before--- Like Jacob - I was supplanting God's work in my life, then like he, wrestled with God and was broken, then it dawned on me - He called me, and chose me as one of his Up-right ones.

Verse three stuck me like a ton of bricks:

For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground; I will pour My Spirit on your descendants, And My blessing on your offspring... Isa 44:3 NKJV

I knew of verse 27 Who says to the deep, 'Be dry! And I will dry up your rivers

And understood its context related to these verses Isaiah 44:23,25 as referring to the lower parts of the earth and thus the deep means the abyss as that is a common element of ancient Israel's cosmology concerning the deep as the abyss which influences people and nations.

I was too busy trying to figure it all out (Christian walk thing), in my own strength and by others measurements drinking from polluted waters thinking these rivers I relied on were from God. I saw how I sabotaged people’s lives for pettiness of being so right doctrine wise that I was missing what the Lord was saying...

For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground...

I will pour My Spirit on your descendants...

And My blessing on your offspring...
Isa 44:3 NKJV

I was called and chosen of God while going through a furnace of trials and afflictions and doubts to wake up my stupid a--s, that He gave us his word, his name, his promise too...

For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground... Isa 44:3 NKJV

So I went before the Lord and cried out - how thirsty I was and I was so tired of the desert I was living in and that he promised too "pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground."

I found a peace literally wash over me that is not of this world and a power not of mine own making - flooding me. I found peace with God which lines up with the Hebrew word meaning for peace as wholeness, soundness of heart and soul no matter what may come that has served as my anchor in life and always gets me back on track when I make a mistake.

That is what I pray for you and those reading this...

The the Lord will..."pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground..."

and stop the flow from the abyss folks drink from and rivers they rely on because...we have a promise, a mandate from God Himself...that he will pour out his Water, the Holy Spirit in us to slap us awake to the reality he has for each of us...

Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.
Isa 44:7 And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, Let them show these to them.
Isa 44:8 Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.' "

Isa 44:21 "Remember these, O Jacob, And Israel, for you are My servant; I have formed you, you are My servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me!
Isa 44:22 I have blotted out, like a thick cloud, your transgressions, And like a cloud, your sins. Return to Me, for I have redeemed you."
Isa 44:23 Sing, O heavens, for the LORD has done it! Shout, you lower parts of the earth; Break forth into singing, you mountains, O forest, and every tree in it! For the LORD has redeemed Jacob, And glorified Himself in Israel.
Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;
Isa 44:25 Who frustrates the signs of the babblers, And drives diviners mad; Who turns wise men backward, And makes their knowledge foolishness;
Isa 44:26 Who confirms the word of His servant, And performs the counsel of His messengers; Who says to Jerusalem, 'You shall be inhabited,' To the cities of Judah, 'You shall be built,' And I will raise up her waste places;
Isa 44:27 Who says to the deep, 'Be dry! And I will dry up your rivers';
Isa 44:28 Who says of Cyrus, 'He is My shepherd, And he shall perform all My pleasure, Saying to Jerusalem, "You shall be built," And to the temple, "Your foundation shall be laid." '

Now these verses may not mean anything to you or they might hit you later. So the question I ask you K and others reading this, one I had to ask my self - where is my faith, is it really in the Lord or the Blacksmith, or the Craftsman, or the worlds ideas, or the deception from the abyss thinking it was really in God but rather idols I made to look like God?

So where is your faith?

In that is where we find our answer... The Lord said...

For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, And floods on the dry ground...

...I will pour My Spirit on your descendants...

...And My blessing on your offspring... Isa 44:3 NKJV
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Isn't it absolutely incredible how we can each read the same verse of scripture, yet experience God's word as being specifically pertinent to our own challenges in the moment? And there are those who claim God no longer speaks to us, when He does so constantly if we simply listen.
Since this world is slave to sin, and we are in the world, too often it seems difficult, if not impossible to believe God is speaking with us, but he is, constantly. What joy when we hear Him!
Cheers!