Evidence for God from Science

Nils wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:24 am Dawkins hates and resents God. He might claim not to believe God exists, but then nonetheless his contempt and hatred can be felt when he's discussing such, face-to-face with a believer or taking to his fellow non-believers.

He may resent and have contempt, I am not sure because I don't know the exact values of these words, but hatred no. Do you have any source?
Nils

I suspect distain for those who believe in God is often interpreted as hatred for God.

It makes no sense to me that people are angry at those who believe in Christ - unless they are somehow being hurt by them. Because those truly following Christ are practicing love, kindness, and benevolence toward their fellow man. So, if one believes such Christians believe in "their sky fairy," then why such anger and hostility? Why be angry in the belief of people that are obviously doing a lot of good and have such a sense of comfort from their belief - even though one might believe their God doesn't even exist? It makes no sense - UNLESS, they DO have some sense that God might exist, and know that if He does, they are in grave eternal danger. They know Christians view them as lost, even when practicing kindness toward unbelievers. And if you notice much of the venom one sees online from atheists is a nasty, mocking, sarcastic obsession with the Christian God, addressing Him almost as if they believe He is real. To me, all this shows is that He IS real, and they are angry that He asserts terrible consequences for those rejecting Him. It's what this God says about them that makes them so angry.

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:38 am It makes no sense to me that people are angry at those who believe in Christ - unless they are somehow being hurt by them. Because those truly following Christ are practicing love, kindness, and benevolence toward their fellow man.

I said "those who believe in God" not everybody who believes in God behaves that way.

Nils wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:24 am Dawkins hates and resents God. He might claim not to believe God exists, but then nonetheless his contempt and hatred can be felt when he's discussing such, face-to-face with a believer or taking to his fellow non-believers.

He may resent and have contempt, I am not sure because I don't know the exact values of these words, but hatred no. Do you have any source?
Nils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqqp8KVuQU

Here Richard Dawkins is calling people to mock and ridicule religious beliefs. How is this not hatred?

claysmithr wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 am

Nils wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:24 am Dawkins hates and resents God. He might claim not to believe God exists, but then nonetheless his contempt and hatred can be felt when he's discussing such, face-to-face with a believer or taking to his fellow non-believers.

He may resent and have contempt, I am not sure because I don't know the exact values of these words, but hatred no. Do you have any source?
Nils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqqp8KVuQU

Here Richard Dawkins is calling people to mock and ridicule religious beliefs. How is this not hatred?

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:38 am It makes no sense to me that people are angry at those who believe in Christ - .....

John 15:18 says..."If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world."

John 16:2 "They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do these things because they have not known the Father or Me."

Do you think that non-Christians can sense that something is different about a Christian? Is it Smugness ? Joy ? Confidence ? in a Christian that causes Jealousy & Resentment in a non-Christian perhaps ? Maybe non-Christians resent the fact that Christians have Faith and Trust in God more than they would have faith and trust in them !

claysmithr wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 am

Nils wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:24 am Dawkins hates and resents God. He might claim not to believe God exists, but then nonetheless his contempt and hatred can be felt when he's discussing such, face-to-face with a believer or taking to his fellow non-believers.

He may resent and have contempt, I am not sure because I don't know the exact values of these words, but hatred no. Do you have any source?
Nils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqqp8KVuQU

Here Richard Dawkins is calling people to mock and ridicule religious beliefs. How is this not hatred?

This video clip was very short and I would like to see more before doing any statement. But I agree with Ken that disdain is often interpreted as hatred. Feelings that may be conected but not always are. From what I read by Dawkins, I don't think he hates even if his wording in this video is too arrogant in my opinion.

Nils

LittleHamster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:01 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 am

Nils wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:24 am Dawkins hates and resents God. He might claim not to believe God exists, but then nonetheless his contempt and hatred can be felt when he's discussing such, face-to-face with a believer or taking to his fellow non-believers.

He may resent and have contempt, I am not sure because I don't know the exact values of these words, but hatred no. Do you have any source?
Nils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqqp8KVuQU

Here Richard Dawkins is calling people to mock and ridicule religious beliefs. How is this not hatred?

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:38 am It makes no sense to me that people are angry at those who believe in Christ - .....

John 15:18 says..."If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world."

John 16:2 "They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do these things because they have not known the Father or Me."

Do you think that non-Christians can sense that something is different about a Christian? Is it Smugness ? Joy ? Confidence ? in a Christian that causes Jealousy & Resentment in a non-Christian perhaps ? Maybe non-Christians resent the fact that Christians have Faith and Trust in God more than they would have faith and trust in them !

Why not ask those non-Christians that are here on this forum. We certainly know better what we and other non-Christians think.

There are lot of atheists that disdain theists because they think they are stupid. (Note, I don't). There may be atheists that sometimes envy Christians that seem to get joy and confidence form their faith but I don't think that it's common. Very few hate God, we don't believe in him and it's strange to hate something that you don't believe in.

Nils

Nils wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:46 am

LittleHamster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:01 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 am

Nils wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:24 am Dawkins hates and resents God. He might claim not to believe God exists, but then nonetheless his contempt and hatred can be felt when he's discussing such, face-to-face with a believer or taking to his fellow non-believers.

He may resent and have contempt, I am not sure because I don't know the exact values of these words, but hatred no. Do you have any source?
Nils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqqp8KVuQU

Here Richard Dawkins is calling people to mock and ridicule religious beliefs. How is this not hatred?

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:38 am It makes no sense to me that people are angry at those who believe in Christ - .....

John 15:18 says..."If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world."

John 16:2 "They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do these things because they have not known the Father or Me."

Do you think that non-Christians can sense that something is different about a Christian? Is it Smugness ? Joy ? Confidence ? in a Christian that causes Jealousy & Resentment in a non-Christian perhaps ? Maybe non-Christians resent the fact that Christians have Faith and Trust in God more than they would have faith and trust in them !

Why not ask those non-Christians that are here on this forum. We certainly know better what we and other non-Christians think.

There are lot of atheists that disdain theists because they think they are stupid. (Note, I don't). There may be atheists that sometimes envy Christians that seem to get joy and confidence form their faith but I don't think that it's common. Very few hate God, we don't believe in him and it's strange to hate something that you don't believe in.

Nils

The bible says God gives everyone a conscience to know that God exists, therefore they are without excuse!

I think atheists hate the idea of God, because they don't want to submit to a moral authority. The problem with this is that most atheists believe in Good and Evil, which they shouldn't because you can't believe in moral law without a moral law giver.

claysmithr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:00 am

Nils wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:46 am

LittleHamster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:01 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 am

Nils wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 am

He may resent and have contempt, I am not sure because I don't know the exact values of these words, but hatred no. Do you have any source?
Nils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqqp8KVuQU

Here Richard Dawkins is calling people to mock and ridicule religious beliefs. How is this not hatred?

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:38 am It makes no sense to me that people are angry at those who believe in Christ - .....

John 15:18 says..."If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world."

John 16:2 "They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do these things because they have not known the Father or Me."

Do you think that non-Christians can sense that something is different about a Christian? Is it Smugness ? Joy ? Confidence ? in a Christian that causes Jealousy & Resentment in a non-Christian perhaps ? Maybe non-Christians resent the fact that Christians have Faith and Trust in God more than they would have faith and trust in them !

Why not ask those non-Christians that are here on this forum. We certainly know better what we and other non-Christians think.

There are lot of atheists that disdain theists because they think they are stupid. (Note, I don't). There may be atheists that sometimes envy Christians that seem to get joy and confidence form their faith but I don't think that it's common. Very few hate God, we don't believe in him and it's strange to hate something that you don't believe in.

Nils

The bible says God gives everyone a conscience to know that God exists, therefore they are without excuse!

I think atheists hate the idea of God, because they don't want to submit to a moral authority. The problem with this is that most atheists believe in Good and Evil, which they shouldn't because you can't believe in moral law without a moral law giver.

Are you under the impression that a moral law giver has to be God?

Ken

Kenny wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:57 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:00 am

Nils wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:46 am

LittleHamster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:01 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:03 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPqqp8KVuQU

Here Richard Dawkins is calling people to mock and ridicule religious beliefs. How is this not hatred?

Philip wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:38 am It makes no sense to me that people are angry at those who believe in Christ - .....

John 15:18 says..."If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world."

John 16:2 "They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do these things because they have not known the Father or Me."

Do you think that non-Christians can sense that something is different about a Christian? Is it Smugness ? Joy ? Confidence ? in a Christian that causes Jealousy & Resentment in a non-Christian perhaps ? Maybe non-Christians resent the fact that Christians have Faith and Trust in God more than they would have faith and trust in them !

Why not ask those non-Christians that are here on this forum. We certainly know better what we and other non-Christians think.

There are lot of atheists that disdain theists because they think they are stupid. (Note, I don't). There may be atheists that sometimes envy Christians that seem to get joy and confidence form their faith but I don't think that it's common. Very few hate God, we don't believe in him and it's strange to hate something that you don't believe in.

Nils

The bible says God gives everyone a conscience to know that God exists, therefore they are without excuse!

I think atheists hate the idea of God, because they don't want to submit to a moral authority. The problem with this is that most atheists believe in Good and Evil, which they shouldn't because you can't believe in moral law without a moral law giver.

Are you under the impression that a moral law giver has to be God?

Ken

From https://rzim.org/just-thinking/must-the ... -lawgiver/

For most people, what we have said so far is enough to establish the dependence of morality on God. All the pieces we need to build that puzzle are not only present but in their rightful places. We know that some things are really wrong. Other things are really right, and there is an objective moral standard that helps us differentiate between the two. We also sense quite strongly that this can only be true if God exists. Morality is indeed grounded in God. Once one begins to realize that morality is not relative, that it cannot be grounded in biological evolution, and that it cannot be fully explained on the basis of social conventions or individual taste, one immediately feels drawn to the conclusion that God must exist.

claysmithr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:54 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:57 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:00 am

Nils wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:46 am

LittleHamster wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:01 am



John 15:18 says..."If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me first. If you were of the world, it would love you as its own. Instead, the world hates you, because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world."

John 16:2 "They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. They will do these things because they have not known the Father or Me."

Do you think that non-Christians can sense that something is different about a Christian? Is it Smugness ? Joy ? Confidence ? in a Christian that causes Jealousy & Resentment in a non-Christian perhaps ? Maybe non-Christians resent the fact that Christians have Faith and Trust in God more than they would have faith and trust in them !

Why not ask those non-Christians that are here on this forum. We certainly know better what we and other non-Christians think.

There are lot of atheists that disdain theists because they think they are stupid. (Note, I don't). There may be atheists that sometimes envy Christians that seem to get joy and confidence form their faith but I don't think that it's common. Very few hate God, we don't believe in him and it's strange to hate something that you don't believe in.

Nils

The bible says God gives everyone a conscience to know that God exists, therefore they are without excuse!

I think atheists hate the idea of God, because they don't want to submit to a moral authority. The problem with this is that most atheists believe in Good and Evil, which they shouldn't because you can't believe in moral law without a moral law giver.

Are you under the impression that a moral law giver has to be God?

Ken

From https://rzim.org/just-thinking/must-the ... -lawgiver/

For most people, what we have said so far is enough to establish the dependence of morality on God. All the pieces we need to build that puzzle are not only present but in their rightful places. We know that some things are really wrong. Other things are really right, and there is an objective moral standard that helps us differentiate between the two. We also sense quite strongly that this can only be true if God exists. Morality is indeed grounded in God. Once one begins to realize that morality is not relative, that it cannot be grounded in biological evolution, and that it cannot be fully explained on the basis of social conventions or individual taste, one immediately feels drawn to the conclusion that God must exist.

Most Theists my hold that position; but I can assure you, most Atheists do not.

Ken

Kenny wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:46 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:54 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:57 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:00 am

Nils wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:46 am
Why not ask those non-Christians that are here on this forum. We certainly know better what we and other non-Christians think.

There are lot of atheists that disdain theists because they think they are stupid. (Note, I don't). There may be atheists that sometimes envy Christians that seem to get joy and confidence form their faith but I don't think that it's common. Very few hate God, we don't believe in him and it's strange to hate something that you don't believe in.

Nils

The bible says God gives everyone a conscience to know that God exists, therefore they are without excuse!

I think atheists hate the idea of God, because they don't want to submit to a moral authority. The problem with this is that most atheists believe in Good and Evil, which they shouldn't because you can't believe in moral law without a moral law giver.

Are you under the impression that a moral law giver has to be God?

Ken

From https://rzim.org/just-thinking/must-the ... -lawgiver/

For most people, what we have said so far is enough to establish the dependence of morality on God. All the pieces we need to build that puzzle are not only present but in their rightful places. We know that some things are really wrong. Other things are really right, and there is an objective moral standard that helps us differentiate between the two. We also sense quite strongly that this can only be true if God exists. Morality is indeed grounded in God. Once one begins to realize that morality is not relative, that it cannot be grounded in biological evolution, and that it cannot be fully explained on the basis of social conventions or individual taste, one immediately feels drawn to the conclusion that God must exist.

Most Theists my hold that position; but I can assure you, most Atheists do not.

Ken

So then, you are a moral relativist?

claysmithr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:32 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:46 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:54 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:57 am

claysmithr wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:00 am

The bible says God gives everyone a conscience to know that God exists, therefore they are without excuse!

I think atheists hate the idea of God, because they don't want to submit to a moral authority. The problem with this is that most atheists believe in Good and Evil, which they shouldn't because you can't believe in moral law without a moral law giver.

Are you under the impression that a moral law giver has to be God?

Ken

From https://rzim.org/just-thinking/must-the ... -lawgiver/

For most people, what we have said so far is enough to establish the dependence of morality on God. All the pieces we need to build that puzzle are not only present but in their rightful places. We know that some things are really wrong. Other things are really right, and there is an objective moral standard that helps us differentiate between the two. We also sense quite strongly that this can only be true if God exists. Morality is indeed grounded in God. Once one begins to realize that morality is not relative, that it cannot be grounded in biological evolution, and that it cannot be fully explained on the basis of social conventions or individual taste, one immediately feels drawn to the conclusion that God must exist.

Most Theists my hold that position; but I can assure you, most Atheists do not.

Ken

So then, you are a moral relativist?

What is a moral relativist?

Ken

Kenny wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:22 am What is a moral relativist?

It might be one that holds to Moral Relativism.

Whew! That was an easy guugle search.
.
.

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:26 am

Kenny wrote: ↑Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:22 am What is a moral relativist?

It might be one that holds to Moral Relativism.

Whew! That was an easy guugle search.
.
.

Yeah that was easy. But the problem with easy google searches, is often the person I am discussing with will disagree with what dictionary.com, wikkipedia, or whatever google might bring up, so to avoid wasting time debating the definition of words I would rather get their definition of the term so I can respond in the context of how they define it rather than whatever google might bring up

Ken