Evidence for God from Science

Neo: God design the human body?...the whole notion is absurd. In fact evidence points to evolution. That is why our bodies can only process some minerals, like calcium, iron etc but not silicon. The dna molecule creates errors in its copy. Sharks don't eat grass, plants do chemical warfare, and etc etc.

P.S. Wait for Phil to reply how perfectly designed everything is.

The immense flaw in your logic is that God both foreknew and desired to create humans, and He has ALWAYS known this, and that He'd come to die to save them. And if He DIDN'T want man to exist, or things to turn out as they did, He'd have made even the possibilities and building blocks differently - or not at all. He set up the possibilities, parameters, capabilities, and the building blocks. And He spoke these things into existence from His mind. And even however differently He COULD had made things possible, He couldn't have foreseen what would never exist, but always foresaw everything that would ever exist or occur. God cannot surprise Himself. He cannot create anything He doesn't fully have control of, whether seeding and designing the capabilities of whatever comes into existence, or interacting at whatever points He so desires. MAN was always foreknown and planned - which Scripture TELLS us - oops, but Neo doesn't believe... Oh, well. Because Neo's view would seem to suggest that God didn't care how things turned out, or that sin would enter and exact such a cost. Or care that free will would be bestowed upon Creatures who would sin and need saving. Or that God can surprise Himself - or that anything can surprise Him.

Anyway, the Cross was no accident - nor is anything God created - including man. And that would be true even if evolution were the mechanism of Creation. As it would have been a God-designed process - even if purely random, that randomness would have to be created, yet with key abilities, by God. And He would have known every outcome - whether randomly produced or not. And the universe will also end precisely as God planned and foreknows it will. To GOD, there is never anything random that He is not A) perfectly knowledgeable of, or B) that He is not in full control over.

Blessed wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 12:56 am

warren631 wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 12:08 pm Why do we need bodies at all? Why can't we just be spirits that don't rot and die and not bother about creating a universe for our bodies. We could still have a free will to decide if we want to be good spirits or bad spirits. God could probably set a limited lifetime for these 'test spirits' same as our bodies - after 100 years we just go 'poof'.

Could have. Says you. But what you or I could've done is below the level of what God could've done - but didn't - for reasons known only to him.
Lots of what ifs. I have wondered what you say about why can't we just be spirits etc as well.

Its all a mystery and we should just have faith and not question?

Blessed wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 11:05 am

Philip wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 10:29 am

K: how do you know people born into poverty and misery have less chance to attain God's kingdom

Good question. I'd say it's entirely probable that the MORE poverty and misery people experience, the MORE likely it is that they will cry out to God in the midst of their troubles. Rich persons are often shielded from difficulties by their great wealth. As their needs are supplied per constant great abundance and luxury. So, from a material standpoint, they often don't think they need God, as their lives so often seem just fine. Or they believe their favorable circumstances are all due to their superior abilities and supposed genius.

Agreed 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%


For every 1 Truett Cathy there must be thousands who don't make it. People born into poverty Globally, such as Dravidian Hindus and other false religions who do not bind themselves to Jesus Christ/God. They have it absolutely terrible on this earth. Hell on earth separated from God .. and hell in the afterlife separated from God.

OK. I should have said: rich and happy people have less chance to attain God's kingdom

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 12:57 pm

warren631 wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 12:08 pm The human lifetime is just a flash in the life of the universe so we don't really get a chance to become better like Jesus wants us to become. And we don't get another chance by reincarnation. People who are born into poverty and misery have less chance to attain Gods kingdom and they don't get another chance. The human body should be designed to last much longer to give everyone enough time to mature and decide whether to be good or bad. For example teeth and bones should be made from stainless steel or stone that don't break easily or rot. I hate going to the dentist. Our bodies seem to be just copies of monkeys. Surly God could come up with something better for us? Why did God need to build a universe for these human bodies to live in? Seems like a lot of work just so our feeble bodies can live for a short time. Why do we need bodies at all? Why can't we just be spirits that don't rot and die and not bother about creating a universe for our bodies. We could still have a free will to decide if we want to be good spirits or bad spirits. God could probably set a limited lifetime for these 'test spirits' same as our bodies - after 100 years we just go 'poof'.

Have you ever tasted stainless steel? Ya...not great.

Anyway, I like the way God made us. I'm especially fond of the manner in which we make babies and express intimacy...and how God made the female body...etc. I like a lot, if not all, the nuances of being human.

The only thing we can do "better" than God at building a human is not at building a human, but building a robot and even then I'm quite certain God can do it better.

If God is so bad at creating efficient humans, why is it we love ourselves so much?
.
.

You 'love yourself so much' because you can conceive of nothing better. 1600 posts and only 3 likes?

Witzend wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 5:36 pm

warren631 wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 12:08 pm The human lifetime is just a flash in the life of the universe so we don't really get a chance to become better like Jesus wants us to become. And we don't get another chance by reincarnation. People who are born into poverty and misery have less chance to attain Gods kingdom and they don't get another chance. The human body should be designed to last much longer to give everyone enough time to mature and decide whether to be good or bad. For example teeth and bones should be made from stainless steel or stone that don't break easily or rot. I hate going to the dentist. Our bodies seem to be just copies of monkeys. Surly God could come up with something better for us? Why did God need to build a universe for these human bodies to live in? Seems like a lot of work just so our feeble bodies can live for a short time. Why do we need bodies at all? Why can't we just be spirits that don't rot and die and not bother about creating a universe for our bodies. We could still have a free will to decide if we want to be good spirits or bad spirits. God could probably set a limited lifetime for these 'test spirits' same as our bodies - after 100 years we just go 'poof'.

Are you suffering?

No, I'm not suffering. Should I.

Best reply. Our human body has obviously, from much scientific proof, evolved from the early slime. But why did God choose to give these lowly human animals His consciousness (Holy Spirit)? To enable humans to eventually "become Gods like Us"?

neo-x quote: "People treat facts as relevant more when the facts tend to support their opinions. When the facts are against their opinions, they don't necessarily deny the facts, but they say the facts are less relevant or insignificant. This is ofcourse because believing things that make you feel comfortable, takes a priority".

Change the word 'People' to 'Police'. Change the phrase 'feel comfortable' to 'get a conviction'. Then I will agree.

When people question why God set us up the way he did, I usually point them towards the Parable of the Prodigal Son (my favorite Parable) and the Christian Mystical Interpretation.

It describes the way in which human beings learn all sorts of lessons (both good and bad). This causes them to come to their senses, leading eventually to their return to God the Father, with the knowledge and understanding to be accepted as a child of God.

Here -> viewtopic.php?f=9&t=40049&p=172513&hili ... on#p172513

FYI,

Evolution designed a better body than God did.

FYI,

Rick: Evolution designed a better body than God did.

Rick is just upset that He didn't get to be the physical specimen he would have liked. Notice that most people use an avatar that is either more handsome or impressive than they actually are. So, what kind of newt might he really be?

RickD wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 4:24 am FYI,

Evolution designed a better body than God did.

In what way? How do you know?

warren631 wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:12 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 4:24 am FYI,

Evolution designed a better body than God did.

In what way? How do you know?

Cause you are still not a sea slug...
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warren631 wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 11:12 am

RickD wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 4:24 am FYI,

Evolution designed a better body than God did.

In what way? How do you know?

It was actually a playful jab at Neo-x's post:

God design the human body?...the whole notion is absurd. In fact evidence points to evolution. That is why our bodies can only process some minerals, like calcium, iron etc but not silicon. The dna molecule creates errors in its copy. Sharks don't eat grass, plants do chemical warfare, and etc etc.

warren631 wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 1:05 pm

Blessed wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 11:05 am

Philip wrote: ↑Fri May 04, 2018 10:29 am

K: how do you know people born into poverty and misery have less chance to attain God's kingdom

Good question. I'd say it's entirely probable that the MORE poverty and misery people experience, the MORE likely it is that they will cry out to God in the midst of their troubles. Rich persons are often shielded from difficulties by their great wealth. As their needs are supplied per constant great abundance and luxury. So, from a material standpoint, they often don't think they need God, as their lives so often seem just fine. Or they believe their favorable circumstances are all due to their superior abilities and supposed genius.

Agreed 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000%


For every 1 Truett Cathy there must be thousands who don't make it. People born into poverty Globally, such as Dravidian Hindus and other false religions who do not bind themselves to Jesus Christ/God. They have it absolutely terrible on this earth. Hell on earth separated from God .. and hell in the afterlife separated from God.

OK. I should have said: rich and happy people have less chance to attain God's kingdom

They are less probable to accept Christ, because the intrinsic nature of their hearts is more hardened towards needing Him. Nonetheless, they have the same chance and are offered the same forgiveness as everyone else.

neo-x wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 6:48 am God design the human body?...the whole notion is absurd. In fact evidence points to evolution. That is why our bodies can only process some minerals, like calcium, iron etc but not silicon. The dna molecule creates errors in its copy. Sharks don't eat grass, plants do chemical warfare, and etc etc.

How do you know that "design" isn't involved in the process? It seems an opposite mistake.

Given a naturalistic origins, if we knock away Aquinas' arguments and other logical arguments for God's existence and to do with the metaphysics of reality, it seems to me one can't know either way if there is an element of design.

And yet, I think the evidence favours that there is design involved the moment one acknowledges "beauty" in the world, this or that is a "good" (or bad) design, and the like. Perfection isn't required, and this is why all arguments based upon "God wouldn't have designed it that way because it is a bad design" are mute -- in the same manner that "God does exist because there is much bad in the world" is mute.

What is offered in Darwin's ideas is that "natural selection" is possible (i.e., no intelligence necessary throughout the process). That is, different species arose not via intelligence, but rather natural laws operating in and of itself.

Nonetheless, Neo, consider this -- that the boundaries within which nature operates, and all the variables within, one doesn't know whether or not they're all loaded. Just like unless you can externally examine dice, you don't know whether or/not they're loaded even if by all means they look normal and seem to roll naturally enough.

Yet, interestingly enough, if you keep getting the same numbers rolling up, you might suspect something uncanny going on. A bit of intelligent manipulation at works. Perhaps there is something to probabilistic fine-tuning arguments in this respect, which people often make.