Evidence for God from Science

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:53 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:33 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:02 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 3:00 pm No, and equally it doesn't prevent him from losing his freedom and getting thrown back in jail. So then, are you saying just those sins when we come to Christ are paid for, that if we repeat sinning then we're still in danger of being condemned?

If you're a sinner, you are condemned whether you're sinning or not. As a Christian sinner, we have assurance of salvation, but that doesn't mean we get to sin willy-nilly...does it?

There is no such thing as a Christian sinner -- for no one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. (1 John 3:6) Read that verse closely, and then tell me, do you continue sinning Bav? If you do, then according to Scripture you don't know Christ.

You should read on past verse 6 and ask yourself how it is we know the difference between sin and not sin...then read carefully Romans 3:20 and the surrounding verses as well.

Then read through 1 Timothy 1:15 and ask yourself what tense the writer is using in conveying his sinfulness. Certainly not past tense.

1 John 3
See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

• no one abides in Christ who keeps on sinning
• no one who keeps on sinning knows Christ
• worse yet, whoever practices sin is of the devil
• no one born of God practices sinning
• if God's seed abides in us, then we cannot sin because we're born of God

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 6:40 pm

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:53 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:33 am

BavarianWheels wrote: ↑Mon May 14, 2018 7:02 am

Kurieuo wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 3:00 pm No, and equally it doesn't prevent him from losing his freedom and getting thrown back in jail. So then, are you saying just those sins when we come to Christ are paid for, that if we repeat sinning then we're still in danger of being condemned?

If you're a sinner, you are condemned whether you're sinning or not. As a Christian sinner, we have assurance of salvation, but that doesn't mean we get to sin willy-nilly...does it?

There is no such thing as a Christian sinner -- for no one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. (1 John 3:6) Read that verse closely, and then tell me, do you continue sinning Bav? If you do, then according to Scripture you don't know Christ.

You should read on past verse 6 and ask yourself how it is we know the difference between sin and not sin...then read carefully Romans 3:20 and the surrounding verses as well.

Then read through 1 Timothy 1:15 and ask yourself what tense the writer is using in conveying his sinfulness. Certainly not past tense.

I've read the whole chapter of 1 John 3:6 and it only gets worse further down.

1 John 3
See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Any Christian who sins should find this passage troubling. According to everything we've been taught about being saved by grace through faith in Christ, a passage like this ought not exist.

So then, I ask you Bav, how do you navigate this passage? It does no good to ignore what is plainly written here. Specifically the following points:

• no one abides in Christ who keeps on sinning
• no one who keeps on sinning knows Christ
• worse yet, whoever practices sin is of the devil
• no one born of God practices sinning
• if God's seed abides in us, then we cannot sin because we're born of God

Now some hard questions for all Christians, but I'm speaking mainly to you Bav.

According to this passage, can someone who truly has Christ sin?
Do you sin? According to 1 John 3 are you of the devil or born of God?

This passage above should make anyone who claims to believe in Christ feel extremely uncomfortable.

I present these passages and ask you these questions Bav because you seem to believe there is such a thing as a Christian sinner. Your question to do with keeping the law or flagrantly sinning after coming to Christ requires this belief, and it is one I actually reject. I'm telling you there is no such thing, according to Scripture, as a Christian sinner. Rather we are righteous and without sin. We must be righteous or God can't accept us, and if we're not of God then we're of the devil -- we can't be both righteous and sinful but must either be one or the other.

Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;

jpbg33 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:34 am I do not think there is a such thing as saved sinners. I think that Paul was saying that Jesus came to save sinners, and out of all the sinners that Jesus will save he deems him self to be the worst.

It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.

jpbg33 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:12 pm you missed read what I said.

I said he was not talking about being a current sinner but rather he was saying that out of all the people that Jesus has saved he was currently the worst one of them all.

Not that he was currently a sinner but if you were to rank all the sinners that were to be saved and compare them by the sins that they committed before they were saved he would have been the worst of them all.

jpbg33 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:19 pm yes I believe Paul was saying he was currently the worst sinner to be saved by Jesus. But I do not believe he though he was still a sinner.