Pope: GOD made people gay

[Stu]

This makes a second time that the pope says something controversial in the recent past behind closed doors...

There is No Hell

Seems the pope is consistent in saying one thing publically or as pope, and thinking something that differs with RCC theology...and this from the Vicar of Christ!
.
.

He has also said "who am I to judge" in terms of gay people. So another instance were he doesn't say it is wrong. Sorry but this pope is an idiot.

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

What verse is that in the Bible?

Am I angry, not sure, maybe hugely disappointed is better. But then I don't even think he is a Christian the way he carries on. I see the Catholic Church as a cult or sect. The way they have acted, the laws they have enacted over the many many years, they can be nothing but a cult. So far removed from the true Christian faith and Bible.

Did you know that they had a law stating that you can only get to heaven and God through the Catholic Church? That's right, no redemption through praying to God outside the Roman Catholic Church, only through the church. There are a ton of other crazy laws that are just insane. One of my favourites was that no one but church leaders were allowed to read the Bible! So the lay person was not allowed to read the Bible, and could only rely on what the priest had to say. Absolute madness.

Size does not make you right. Besides with all the intimidation that the RCC done over the years is it any surprise that they are as large as they are. Don't agree with the church - burnt at the stake. Preach a different doctrine - burnt at the stake. Do you know how many protestants they killed over the years - MILLIONS. What kind of Christian organisation does that? Insanity.

If you conform to the Bible, that is what counts. NOT the amount of churches you have or the amount of followers you have. Just look at Islam, they have plenty.

[neo-x]

This makes a second time that the pope says something controversial in the recent past behind closed doors...

There is No Hell

Seems the pope is consistent in saying one thing publically or as pope, and thinking something that differs with RCC theology...and this from the Vicar of Christ!
.
.

He has also said "who am I to judge" in terms of gay people. So another instance were he doesn't say it is wrong. Sorry but this pope is an idiot.

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

What verse is that in the Bible?

Am I angry, not sure, maybe hugely disappointed is better. But then I don't even think he is a Christian the way he carries on. I see the Catholic Church as a cult or sect. The way they have acted, the laws they have enacted over the many many years, they can be nothing but a cult. So far removed from the true Christian faith and Bible.

Did you know that they had a law stating that you can only get to heaven and God through the Catholic Church? That's right, no redemption through praying to God outside the Roman Catholic Church, only through the church. There are a ton of other crazy laws that are just insane. One of my favourites was that no one but church leaders were allowed to read the Bible! So the lay person was not allowed to read the Bible, and could only rely on what the priest had to say. Absolute madness.

Size does not make you right. Besides with all the intimidation that the RCC done over the years is it any surprise that they are as large as they are. Don't agree with the church - burnt at the stake. Preach a different doctrine - burnt at the stake. Do you know how many protestants they killed over the years - MILLIONS. What kind of Christian organisation does that? Insanity.

If you conform to the Bible, that is what counts. NOT the amount of churches you have or the amount of followers you have. Just look at Islam, they have plenty.

I think you are over-reacting. Of course, they had those laws. But it would be silly to judge them based on their actions from the past. FWIW, I don't think they are a cult.

[Stu]

This makes a second time that the pope says something controversial in the recent past behind closed doors...

There is No Hell

Seems the pope is consistent in saying one thing publically or as pope, and thinking something that differs with RCC theology...and this from the Vicar of Christ!
.
.

He has also said "who am I to judge" in terms of gay people. So another instance were he doesn't say it is wrong. Sorry but this pope is an idiot.

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

What verse is that in the Bible?

Am I angry, not sure, maybe hugely disappointed is better. But then I don't even think he is a Christian the way he carries on. I see the Catholic Church as a cult or sect. The way they have acted, the laws they have enacted over the many many years, they can be nothing but a cult. So far removed from the true Christian faith and Bible.

Did you know that they had a law stating that you can only get to heaven and God through the Catholic Church? That's right, no redemption through praying to God outside the Roman Catholic Church, only through the church. There are a ton of other crazy laws that are just insane. One of my favourites was that no one but church leaders were allowed to read the Bible! So the lay person was not allowed to read the Bible, and could only rely on what the priest had to say. Absolute madness.

Size does not make you right. Besides with all the intimidation that the RCC done over the years is it any surprise that they are as large as they are. Don't agree with the church - burnt at the stake. Preach a different doctrine - burnt at the stake. Do you know how many protestants they killed over the years - MILLIONS. What kind of Christian organisation does that? Insanity.

If you conform to the Bible, that is what counts. NOT the amount of churches you have or the amount of followers you have. Just look at Islam, they have plenty.

I think you are over-reacting. Of course, they had those laws. But it would be silly to judge them based on their actions from the past. FWIW, I don't think they are a cult.

No I'm not overreacting. You don't get to just wash your hands of something like killing MILLIONS of innocent people. But some people just seem to brush it off as if it doesn't matter or never even happened.

There are plenty current RCC laws that go against what the Bible teaches. For instance praying to the saints or praying to Mary. In other words praying to the dead. The Bible tells us that necromancy is forbidden and that is exactly what praying to the saints or Mary is. But hey it's an everyday practice in the RCC church.

And what about purgatory. No where in the Bible does it say there is such a thing as purgatory! It is a RCC fantasy to ease the conscience of people who are afraid of going to hell. You don't sit in purgatory and have people pray for you (that they have to pay to do no less). It's a completely man-made thing that is so dangerous to teach.

[Philip]

The main problem with the CC is that it encourages beliefs that one needs a priest or saints between themselves and God. Christian pastors and teachers - yes, we need them. Priests to facilitate our confessions or relationship with God - Jesus is our intercessor and advocate between God and man. The whole Mary cult thing or intercessions of dead saints - these merely further dependencies upon unScriptural practices as opposed to our proper focus upon Christ, Who is all we need!

[melanie]

God created humans. In doing so gave us the immense blessing of freewill.
In freewill lies sin.
It can’t not.
Choice as divine as it is creates a uniqueness and diversity in every person and with that creates a unique footprint for every person.
Nothing is new under the sun for God. Nothing unknown nor unforeseen.
He knows our struggles, knew it before creation. That we would struggle with pride, lust, greed ect.
God didn’t make some people Gay, he created knowing that we would all make choices defined by autonomy and freewill.
Are some people born gay? I don’t know that anymore than whether some people are born with any innate disclaimer of who or what they identity with.
I’m not saying it’s okay to be gay or not okay. I don’t care. I don’t know and
It’s not my spiritual business.
What is my business is the treatment of others. If anyone is being spoken down too or regarded as less than for any reason then I stand with them. If that’s the gay community then I stand with them. If that’s any individual or group that has been made to feel unworthy or not good enough then I stand by them also. Across the board.
Every single person is the image bearer of Christ and every person is deserving of acceptance and forgiveness. That is the message of the Gospel.

[BavarianWheels]

God created humans. In doing so gave us the immense blessing of freewill.
In freewill lies sin.
It can’t not.
Choice as divine as it is creates a uniqueness and diversity in every person and with that creates a unique footprint for every person.
Nothing is new under the sun for God. Nothing unknown nor unforeseen.
He knows our struggles, knew it before creation. That we would struggle with pride, lust, greed ect.
God didn’t make some people Gay, he created knowing that we would all make choices defined by autonomy and freewill.
Are some people born gay? I don’t know that anymore than whether some people are born with any innate disclaimer of who or what they identity with.
I’m not saying it’s okay to be gay or not okay. I don’t care. I don’t know and
It’s not my spiritual business.
What is my business is the treatment of others. If anyone is being spoken down too or regarded as less than for any reason then I stand with them. If that’s the gay community then I stand with them. If that’s any individual or group that has been made to feel unworthy or not good enough then I stand by them also. Across the board.
Every single person is the image bearer of Christ and every person is deserving of acceptance and forgiveness. That is the message of the Gospel.

I'm in agreement with you, but let me ask you a provocative question that I think hits the point on the whole about the homosexuality issue.

Does Christ's image reflect homosexuality?
.
.

[melanie]

God created humans. In doing so gave us the immense blessing of freewill.
In freewill lies sin.
It can’t not.
Choice as divine as it is creates a uniqueness and diversity in every person and with that creates a unique footprint for every person.
Nothing is new under the sun for God. Nothing unknown nor unforeseen.
He knows our struggles, knew it before creation. That we would struggle with pride, lust, greed ect.
God didn’t make some people Gay, he created knowing that we would all make choices defined by autonomy and freewill.
Are some people born gay? I don’t know that anymore than whether some people are born with any innate disclaimer of who or what they identity with.
I’m not saying it’s okay to be gay or not okay. I don’t care. I don’t know and
It’s not my spiritual business.
What is my business is the treatment of others. If anyone is being spoken down too or regarded as less than for any reason then I stand with them. If that’s the gay community then I stand with them. If that’s any individual or group that has been made to feel unworthy or not good enough then I stand by them also. Across the board.
Every single person is the image bearer of Christ and every person is deserving of acceptance and forgiveness. That is the message of the Gospel.

I'm in agreement with you, but let me ask you a provocative question that I think hits the point on the whole about the homosexuality issue.

Does Christ's image reflect homosexuality?
.
.

Christ’s image, the image of God reflects and represents all of us. We are all born in the image of God without exception. All born equal under His Grace.
We are not born perfect nor without flaw but on even ground in the eyes of Our Father. By that token we are judged, as we all will be based on our measure and rod we use against others.
How harshly we judge others will be the rod used to judge us.
Forgiveness is Gods language and it has no bounds for its based on love and Gods love is limitless so it’s without fear.
So it’s not in fear that I reserve my judgement of others but in humility of how far I fall in so many ways.
I don’t know if being gay is wrong. But it doesn’t change my treatment of any gay person which is always with love nor does it change Jesus’ message to them which is He loves them.
What ever transpires between their relationship is theirs. It’s not mine to judge or pick apart. The message of the Gospel doesn’t suffer because of it. He loves them, gay or not. The messsage doesn’t change nor the sacrifice on the cross.
I’ll let the good Lord be the condemer and judge because I’m not qualified.

[Stu]

God created humans. In doing so gave us the immense blessing of freewill.
In freewill lies sin.
It can’t not.
Choice as divine as it is creates a uniqueness and diversity in every person and with that creates a unique footprint for every person.
Nothing is new under the sun for God. Nothing unknown nor unforeseen.
He knows our struggles, knew it before creation. That we would struggle with pride, lust, greed ect.
God didn’t make some people Gay, he created knowing that we would all make choices defined by autonomy and freewill.
Are some people born gay? I don’t know that anymore than whether some people are born with any innate disclaimer of who or what they identity with.
I’m not saying it’s okay to be gay or not okay. I don’t care. I don’t know and
It’s not my spiritual business.
What is my business is the treatment of others. If anyone is being spoken down too or regarded as less than for any reason then I stand with them. If that’s the gay community then I stand with them. If that’s any individual or group that has been made to feel unworthy or not good enough then I stand by them also. Across the board.
Every single person is the image bearer of Christ and every person is deserving of acceptance and forgiveness. That is the message of the Gospel.

I'm in agreement with you, but let me ask you a provocative question that I think hits the point on the whole about the homosexuality issue.

Does Christ's image reflect homosexuality?
.
.

Christ’s image, the image of God reflects and represents all of us. We are all born in the image of God without exception. All born equal under His Grace.
We are not born perfect nor without flaw but on even ground in the eyes of Our Father. By that token we are judged, as we all will be based on our measure and rod we use against others.
How harshly we judge others will be the rod used to judge us.
Forgiveness is Gods language and it has no bounds for its based on love and Gods love is limitless so it’s without fear.
So it’s not in fear that I reserve my judgement of others but in humility of how far I fall in so many ways.
I don’t know if being gay is wrong. But it doesn’t change my treatment of any gay person which is always with love nor does it change Jesus’ message to them which is He loves them.
What ever transpires between their relationship is theirs. It’s not mine to judge or pick apart. The message of the Gospel doesn’t suffer because of it. He loves them, gay or not. The messsage doesn’t change nor the sacrifice on the cross.
I’ll let the good Lord be the condemer and judge because I’m not qualified.

What do you mean you don't know if being gay is wrong. Of course it is, the Bible calls it an abomination. End of story.

Don't bring your feelings into it.

[BavarianWheels]

God created humans. In doing so gave us the immense blessing of freewill.
In freewill lies sin.
It can’t not.
Choice as divine as it is creates a uniqueness and diversity in every person and with that creates a unique footprint for every person.
Nothing is new under the sun for God. Nothing unknown nor unforeseen.
He knows our struggles, knew it before creation. That we would struggle with pride, lust, greed ect.
God didn’t make some people Gay, he created knowing that we would all make choices defined by autonomy and freewill.
Are some people born gay? I don’t know that anymore than whether some people are born with any innate disclaimer of who or what they identity with.
I’m not saying it’s okay to be gay or not okay. I don’t care. I don’t know and
It’s not my spiritual business.
What is my business is the treatment of others. If anyone is being spoken down too or regarded as less than for any reason then I stand with them. If that’s the gay community then I stand with them. If that’s any individual or group that has been made to feel unworthy or not good enough then I stand by them also. Across the board.
Every single person is the image bearer of Christ and every person is deserving of acceptance and forgiveness. That is the message of the Gospel.

I'm in agreement with you, but let me ask you a provocative question that I think hits the point on the whole about the homosexuality issue.

Does Christ's image reflect homosexuality?
.
.

Christ’s image, the image of God reflects and represents all of us. We are all born in the image of God without exception. All born equal under His Grace.
We are not born perfect nor without flaw but on even ground in the eyes of Our Father. By that token we are judged, as we all will be based on our measure and rod we use against others.
How harshly we judge others will be the rod used to judge us.
Forgiveness is Gods language and it has no bounds for its based on love and Gods love is limitless so it’s without fear.
So it’s not in fear that I reserve my judgement of others but in humility of how far I fall in so many ways.
I don’t know if being gay is wrong. But it doesn’t change my treatment of any gay person which is always with love nor does it change Jesus’ message to them which is He loves them.
What ever transpires between their relationship is theirs. It’s not mine to judge or pick apart. The message of the Gospel doesn’t suffer because of it. He loves them, gay or not. The messsage doesn’t change nor the sacrifice on the cross.
I’ll let the good Lord be the condemer and judge because I’m not qualified.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I may have a slight issue in your wording above, but on the whole there is no issue.

But you didn't really answer my question. My question wasn't whether we are made in the image of God. There's no question in my mind on that fact. We know God loves us in the condition we are in...tattered and flawed. I don't make the stance that God treats homosexuals any different...why should He? We are all unrighteous, period. God offers forgiveness and reconciliation to ALL.

My question is specific. Does Christ's image reflect homosexuality?
.
.

[RickD]

God created humans. In doing so gave us the immense blessing of freewill.
In freewill lies sin.
It can’t not.
Choice as divine as it is creates a uniqueness and diversity in every person and with that creates a unique footprint for every person.
Nothing is new under the sun for God. Nothing unknown nor unforeseen.
He knows our struggles, knew it before creation. That we would struggle with pride, lust, greed ect.
God didn’t make some people Gay, he created knowing that we would all make choices defined by autonomy and freewill.
Are some people born gay? I don’t know that anymore than whether some people are born with any innate disclaimer of who or what they identity with.
I’m not saying it’s okay to be gay or not okay. I don’t care. I don’t know and
It’s not my spiritual business.
What is my business is the treatment of others. If anyone is being spoken down too or regarded as less than for any reason then I stand with them. If that’s the gay community then I stand with them. If that’s any individual or group that has been made to feel unworthy or not good enough then I stand by them also. Across the board.
Every single person is the image bearer of Christ and every person is deserving of acceptance and forgiveness. That is the message of the Gospel.

I'm in agreement with you, but let me ask you a provocative question that I think hits the point on the whole about the homosexuality issue.

Does Christ's image reflect homosexuality?
.
.

Christ’s image, the image of God reflects and represents all of us. We are all born in the image of God without exception. All born equal under His Grace.
We are not born perfect nor without flaw but on even ground in the eyes of Our Father. By that token we are judged, as we all will be based on our measure and rod we use against others.
How harshly we judge others will be the rod used to judge us.
Forgiveness is Gods language and it has no bounds for its based on love and Gods love is limitless so it’s without fear.
So it’s not in fear that I reserve my judgement of others but in humility of how far I fall in so many ways.
I don’t know if being gay is wrong. But it doesn’t change my treatment of any gay person which is always with love nor does it change Jesus’ message to them which is He loves them.
What ever transpires between their relationship is theirs. It’s not mine to judge or pick apart. The message of the Gospel doesn’t suffer because of it. He loves them, gay or not. The messsage doesn’t change nor the sacrifice on the cross.
I’ll let the good Lord be the condemer and judge because I’m not qualified.

What do you mean you don't know if being gay is wrong. Of course it is, the Bible calls it an abomination. End of story.

Don't bring your feelings into it.

No it doesn't Stu. The Bible condemns homosexual acts.

[Philip]

I don’t know if being gay is wrong.

But that isn't really the question, is it? Having struggles against whatever sins we are attracted and tempted to commit - temptation is not sin (unless one causes it). But GIVING IN to certain things God says are sin - behavior and actions that God calls wrong - that is precisely what sin is. So, the question is, are homosexual behaviors and actions sin or not? Scripture repeatedly says it is wrong - even calling it an "abomination." Are those Scriptures WRONG - are they not God-given, by God's handpicked prophets and apostles - as we see a uniform teaching across the Bible about this. Note, there is not ONE Scriptural example of righteous behavior including gay activities or unions - actually, quite the opposite. So it matters not one hill of beans whether I or anyone else thinks this is sin or not. What should matter, is what God thinks about it! And no one taking Scripture seriously can deny God hates it. But he also hates adultery between heterosexuals, lusts of all manner for things that are not ours, or that are unhealthy for us. We are to love the sinner, hate the things God calls sin!

Read through this and the embedded, relevant Scriptures!

https://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html

[BavarianWheels]

What do you mean you don't know if being gay is wrong. Of course it is, the Bible calls it an abomination. End of story.

Don't bring your feelings into it.

No it doesn't Stu. The Bible condemns homosexual acts.

In full agreement with RickD here!
.
.

[Stu]

God created humans. In doing so gave us the immense blessing of freewill.
In freewill lies sin.
It can’t not.
Choice as divine as it is creates a uniqueness and diversity in every person and with that creates a unique footprint for every person.
Nothing is new under the sun for God. Nothing unknown nor unforeseen.
He knows our struggles, knew it before creation. That we would struggle with pride, lust, greed ect.
God didn’t make some people Gay, he created knowing that we would all make choices defined by autonomy and freewill.
Are some people born gay? I don’t know that anymore than whether some people are born with any innate disclaimer of who or what they identity with.
I’m not saying it’s okay to be gay or not okay. I don’t care. I don’t know and
It’s not my spiritual business.
What is my business is the treatment of others. If anyone is being spoken down too or regarded as less than for any reason then I stand with them. If that’s the gay community then I stand with them. If that’s any individual or group that has been made to feel unworthy or not good enough then I stand by them also. Across the board.
Every single person is the image bearer of Christ and every person is deserving of acceptance and forgiveness. That is the message of the Gospel.

I'm in agreement with you, but let me ask you a provocative question that I think hits the point on the whole about the homosexuality issue.

Does Christ's image reflect homosexuality?
.
.

Christ’s image, the image of God reflects and represents all of us. We are all born in the image of God without exception. All born equal under His Grace.
We are not born perfect nor without flaw but on even ground in the eyes of Our Father. By that token we are judged, as we all will be based on our measure and rod we use against others.
How harshly we judge others will be the rod used to judge us.
Forgiveness is Gods language and it has no bounds for its based on love and Gods love is limitless so it’s without fear.
So it’s not in fear that I reserve my judgement of others but in humility of how far I fall in so many ways.
I don’t know if being gay is wrong. But it doesn’t change my treatment of any gay person which is always with love nor does it change Jesus’ message to them which is He loves them.
What ever transpires between their relationship is theirs. It’s not mine to judge or pick apart. The message of the Gospel doesn’t suffer because of it. He loves them, gay or not. The messsage doesn’t change nor the sacrifice on the cross.
I’ll let the good Lord be the condemer and judge because I’m not qualified.

What do you mean you don't know if being gay is wrong. Of course it is, the Bible calls it an abomination. End of story.

Don't bring your feelings into it.

No it doesn't Stu. The Bible condemns homosexual acts.

Yes, that's what I meant.

[melanie]

Like how it’s an abomination to eat sea creatures without fin or scale so crab, lobster, squid and calamari. Plus bacon and pork.
Or to approach a menstruating female.
Or all insects that crawl on all fours.
An unfit animal for slaughter.
All work and employment on the sabbath.
Getting divorced ect and so on

I don’t think it’s so cut and dry because by those standards we’ve all committed an abomination.
Secondly we are no longer under the law but set free by Jesus

[melanie]

I don’t know if being gay is wrong.

But that isn't really the question, is it? Having struggles against whatever sins we are attracted and tempted to commit - temptation is not sin (unless one causes it). But GIVING IN to certain things God says are sin - behavior and actions that God calls wrong - that is precisely what sin is. So, the question is, are homosexual behaviors and actions sin or not? Scripture repeatedly says it is wrong - even calling it an "abomination." Are those Scriptures WRONG - are they not God-given, by God's handpicked prophets and apostles - as we see a uniform teaching across the Bible about this. Note, there is not ONE Scriptural example of righteous behavior including gay activities or unions - actually, quite the opposite. So it matters not one hill of beans whether I or anyone else thinks this is sin or not. What should matter, is what God thinks about it! And no one taking Scripture seriously can deny God hates it. But he also hates adultery between heterosexuals, lusts of all manner for things that are not ours, or that are unhealthy for us. We are to love the sinner, hate the things God calls sin!

Read through this and the embedded, relevant Scriptures!

https://www.gotquestions.org/gay-marriage.html

I have to be honest that I find it really hypocritical that when the argument suits both you and Rick argue strongly why we now under the New Testament and not under the Law of the Old Testament.
We don’t get to pick and choose when that’s relevant. Either we are or we are not.
If you believe we are governed by the law of the Old Testament you’re entitled to that opinion but that’s not Christianity.