Evidence for God from Science

For those not having received The Law of the Prophets or from Jesus and the Apostles - they still know right and wrong!

Romans 2: 14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

The above only shows people know right from wrong. But it can't save them.

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:05 am


You are simply wrong.

Hebrews 8:13

That's a cherry picked verse.

I don't see the 10 commandments mentioned under "covenant" nor do I see the context of "covenant" in that verse.

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:05 am


You are simply wrong.

Hebrews 8:13

Blessed wrote:
That's a cherry picked verse.

I don't see the 10 commandments mentioned under "covenant" nor do I see the context of "covenant" in that verse.

Actually, the 10 Commandments are the backbone of the covenant between God and Israel, they ARE the covenant between God and Israel. That is why the first ones are all about God:

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

Blessed wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:59 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:05 am


You are simply wrong.

Hebrews 8:13

That's a cherry picked verse.

I don't see the 10 commandments mentioned under "covenant" nor do I see the context of "covenant" in that verse.

Of course you don't see the context of covenant, because it's obvious that you have no idea of the differences of the covenants, nor the significance of covenants. That is why you feel Christians need to hold to OT law. You don't realize that you are making a mockery of Christ's work.

If you really want to understand the differences between covenants, and what Christ's death and resurrection accomplished, people here are willing to help you understand.

Just ask, and be willing to learn something.

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:02 am

Blessed wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:59 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:05 am


You are simply wrong.

Hebrews 8:13

That's a cherry picked verse.

I don't see the 10 commandments mentioned under "covenant" nor do I see the context of "covenant" in that verse.

Of course you don't see the context of covenant, because it's obvious that you have no idea of the differences of the covenants, nor the significance of covenants. That is why you feel Christians need to hold to OT law. You don't realize that you are making a mockery of Christ's work.

If you really want to understand the differences between covenants, and what Christ's death and resurrection accomplished, people here are willing to help you understand.

Just ask, and be willing to learn something.

I am not throwing out the OT law. Ain't gonna happen. OT is the foundation for the NT. The 10 commandments are God's law to humanity. Then and now.

Blessed wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:45 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:02 am

Blessed wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:59 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:05 am


You are simply wrong.

Hebrews 8:13

That's a cherry picked verse.

I don't see the 10 commandments mentioned under "covenant" nor do I see the context of "covenant" in that verse.

Of course you don't see the context of covenant, because it's obvious that you have no idea of the differences of the covenants, nor the significance of covenants. That is why you feel Christians need to hold to OT law. You don't realize that you are making a mockery of Christ's work.

If you really want to understand the differences between covenants, and what Christ's death and resurrection accomplished, people here are willing to help you understand.

Just ask, and be willing to learn something.

I am not throwing out the OT law. Ain't gonna happen. OT is the foundation for the NT. The 10 commandments are God's law to humanity. Then and now.

Throwing out the OT law? Nobody said anything about "throwing out" the OT law. Again, you really need help understanding the function of the different covenants.

Seriously, there are people here that are willing to help you understand this. Just ask.

While we're on it, do you care to back up your assertion that the 10 commandments are God's law to humanity, then and now?

It's the foundation for the house. I don't need to back it up. It's there in the Bible given to Moses for Jews and Gentiles alike. Thou shalt not commit idolatry, murder, steal, adultery etc. Yea I think that's pretty self explanatory and God's word does not require backup documentation. Anyone who thinks the NT's supplanted the 10 commandments is a loony tunes Christian off the deep end. A house with an award winning lawn - does not supplant it's foundation. The foundation must exist - or the house falls.

Blessed wrote: ↑Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:23 pm It's the foundation for the house. I don't need to back it up. It's there in the Bible given to Moses for Jews and Gentiles alike. Thou shalt not commit idolatry, murder, steal, adultery etc. Yea I think that's pretty self explanatory and God's word does not require backup documentation. Anyone who thinks the NT's supplanted the 10 commandments is a loony tunes Christian off the deep end. A house with an award winning lawn - does not supplant it's foundation. The foundation must exist - or the house falls.

Where in the bible is the 10 commandments given to Jews and Gentiles alike? I see in Exodus 20:2, where God gave the 10 commandments to Israel, but I'm missing the verse(s) where God gave the 10 to the Gentiles. Can you post the verse(s) please?

And FYI, scripture says that Christ is the foundation (1 Corinthians 3:11), not the OT law. Which you would know, if you understood the significance of the new covenant. Are you willing to learn?

You know very well the 10 commandments applies to all humankind - not just Jews. First the Jew than the Gentile. The OT is the foundation of God's law. It will not be discarded for the NT. You're cherry picking verses like CNN. I am not willing to learn something that is contrary to God's law, no.

Exodus 20 will tell you everything you need to know

Blessed wrote:
You know very well the 10 commandments applies to all humankind - not just Jews. First the Jew then the Gentile.

"First the Jew then the Gentile" comes from Romans 1:16, and it refers to the Gospel, not the 10 commandments.

The OT is the foundation of God's law. It will not be discarded for the NT.

And again, nobody is saying to discard the Old Testament. The Old Testament is inspired scripture.

Exodus 20 will tell you everything you need to know

Yes, I agree! Is it possible we've found something we agree on, and can discuss further? Let's look at Exodus 20, and see what it tells us, that is crucial to understanding to whom the 10 Commandments were given.

Exodus 20:1-2
20 Then God spoke all these words, saying,

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.


Tell me who this is talking about. Who exactly is God speaking to? Who did He bring out of slavery in Egypt?

claysmithr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:09 am Can we improve the 10 commandments?

I can think of some
* thou shall not rape
* thou shall not own slaves

The 10 commandments are a simple summary of God’s law. Basically, God is saying, “If you are too obtuse to understand what my ‘law of love’ is, then, here is what it is not.”

• stealing your neighbors car is not love!
• coveting your neighbors wife is not love!

When we become Christians the Mosaic law is superceeded by the ‘law of love’, or as the New Testament calls it, the ‘law of Christ’ which is way superior to the written code. Yes, the ‘law of Christ’ is a major improvement.

The 10 Commandments are a part of the covenant that God established with Israel at Mount Sinai in Exodus 19:3-24:11.
God uses the word covenant in Exodus 19:5 and Exodus 24:7 refers to the 'covenant scroll'.
So Rick is correct... The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) are part of the Old Covenant that God established between himself and Israel (Exodus 19:3-24:11).

The foundation of the OT is not the Ten Commandments.
Jesus gives us the foundation of the OT in Matthew 22:34-40
"37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Jesus provides teaching regarding the OT Law in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5:17-48.

In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul tells us that the OT Law was a shadow that point to the reality that would come in Christ.
"These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

Hebrews 10:1-10 also teaches the same principle
"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves."

This is why Hebrews 8:7-13 talks about how the establishment of the 'New Covenant' makes the 'Old Covenant' obsolete.

When Christ came to earth, he fulfilled the 'Old Covenant' and established the 'New Covenant'.
By pointing to the reality which would come in Christ, the Old Covenant had fulfilled its purpose.

When asking who did God bring out of Egypt... I ponder; but not for long.

Did everyone come from Adam and Eve?
Science says we did.
Bible says we did too.
Let's just agree with it.

If so, you were IN ADAM at the garden.
We're all one family of humans.
Paul says you're a Jew now. It's simply part of your heritage.

IN Adam you received the curse, then the law.
IN Christ you broke the curse and fulfilled the law but the law still remains.
It wasn't nullified; it was simply fulfilled.

Zacchaeus wrote:
When asking who did God bring out of Egypt... I ponder; but not for long.

Good. Now that you know that God brought the Israelites out of Egypt, you know that the 10 commandments were given to them.

Did everyone come from Adam and Eve?

Physically? No, I highly doubt it.

Science says we did.

What? Where?

Bible says we did too.

What? Where?

Let's just agree with it.

Umm...no.

If so, you were IN ADAM at the garden.

Not genetically.

We're all one family of humans.

In a manner of speaking, yes.

Paul says you're a Jew now. It's simply part of your heritage.

What? Where?

IN Adam you received the curse, then the law.

What? It was the law of Moses, not Adam.

IN Christ you broke the curse and fulfilled the law but the law still remains.

What? Christ fulfilled the law, we didn't. We are under a new covenant.

It wasn't nullified; it was simply fulfilled.

Amen! You do know what fulfilled and obsolete means, right?
Hebrews 8:13

Old Testament = Old Covenant
New Testament = New Covenant

I agree that the 10 commandments are from the old covenant, and people would be considered righteous under the old covenant by keeping them. There however is a problem, nobody is capable of keeping the law perfectly, it's like a chain, u break 1 law and the whole thing is broken. That's why Christ gives us a new covenant in his blood, where we submit to him, and he not only wipes away our sins, but gives us his righteousness.

The 10 commandments however act as a mirror to show us our sin and a need for a savior.