Evidence for God from Science

What Five Pointers typically believe is not that every action a person takes is predestined, but that salvation AND non-salvation are.

Philip wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:01 pm What Five Pointers typically believe is not that every action a person takes is predestined, but that salvation AND non-salvation are.

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:06 pm

Nessa wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:45 pm

RickD wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:03 pm Nessa,

If you are able to read the KJ, then I say go ahead. Personally, I have too much difficulty with the King James.

It's best to get a good translation that you like.

A while back, I used to read an NIV study bible. But I found there to be too many opinions in the study notes, that distracted me from the scripture itself.

Nessa wrote:
In Daniel, the NIV says gab said Daniel was 'highly esteemed' but KJV and NKJV says greatly loved or beloved.

The word for highly esteemed, in Daniel 10:11, is chemdah, which means precious. Someone who is precious to another, is beloved, or held in high esteem.

What version do you read now?

I see piper and some others recommending​ ESV

This forum uses NASB, when verses are posted. Since I've been here, I've grown used to the NASB. For me, it's easy to understand. So, I mostly use NASB, when reading. When studying, I mostly do that online, so I use different translations.

You've reminded me that I really need to read more than I have been. I've been neglecting it lately.

Start a 'read the bible' in a year thread and maybe a few of us can do it together.

I have found a liking for whole book expository teaching. Way better than sermons just filled with life experiences and a few scriptures. Tho, I heard Andy Stanley finds it lazy

Expository teaching - at least GOOD expository teaching - always emphasizes the contextual element - which the random, cherry picking of scriptures to apply them to a certain topic can easily misapply them. Even if attempting to explain one passage with other ones with roughly the same topic can lead to false understandings, as even with similar topics, the nuances from various passages may well not fit the points a specific sermon attempts to apply them to. There are a LOT of pastors out there - some of them very well known - that never had any significant level of theology or hermenutics training. And because many in their congregations are equally, inadequately trained, bad teaching gets absorbed and passed along.

Philip wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:52 pm NASB is very good. Many Bible scholars like the ESV. And the ESV Study Bible also offers a virtual library of information, maps, history, archaeological discoveries - it's an absolutely amazing resource! The footnotes do have a, mostly subtle, Calvinist influence - that I wouldn't have noticed if I'd not been looking for it due to knowing a bit about the backgrounds of some members of the translation team. But it's not blatant or offensive. The best translations are not interpretation-driven. Nonetheless, certain decision must be made in the process.

I would love the esv study Bible but it costs a fortune... Though alot of bibles here do.

Just brought a nice leather esv online.... Couldn't resist

Ness, 50 bucks! https://www.christianbook.com/esv-study ... gIzNfD_BwE

Philip wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:43 pm Ness, 50 bucks! https://www.christianbook.com/esv-study ... gIzNfD_BwE

It's $31 shipping for me and that's US dollars....

Basically I'd be paying the same for shipping as the actual item.

I'll put it on my Xmas list perhaps.... And just hope Santa was looking the other way when I was being naughty

Nessa wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:01 am

Philip wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:43 pm Ness, 50 bucks! https://www.christianbook.com/esv-study ... gIzNfD_BwE

It's $31 shipping for me and that's US dollars....

Basically I'd be paying the same for shipping as the actual item.

I'll put it on my Xmas list perhaps.... And just hope Santa was looking the other way when I was being naughty

Why not read it online?

Why not read it online?

Yes, that's easy - and there are a couple of free apps to do so. But beyond being a good translation, what makes the ESV Study Bible so great is all of the info, history, maps, scientific findings - a ton of great supplemental stuff. It also addresses heresies, etc.

ESV study bible is great, I also like the Jerusalem Bible.

In my bible studies I have realized that the KJV bible is an old earth translation,while these newer translations have been changed to hide an old earth making it easier for young earth creationists to claim the earth is 6000 years old and young.I guess if the age of the earth is not important to you then it is'nt a big deal,but it is a big deal when you're trying to convince YEC's the earth is old and the bible tells us it is old and not young.

The KJV was translated long before modern science even got started and before the age of the earth was even known according to science and so once science learned the age of the earth it lined up with what the KJV bible revealed and this is why so many accepted an old earth at the time.It was like when we realize a bible prophecy has been fulfilled. Yet read these modern translations and you'd never know the earth is old.I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but it really makes me wonder if our bibles were tainted in order to make it easier to believe the earth is young.

Has anyone heard of the modern translation 'The voice'?

I've only just seen it now... It's even more messenger like than 'The message'

It has artists and poets doing the wording... Not just the usual type of translators.....

This is from the 'Got Questions' website concerning it....

...
For instance, consider this familiar passage from Psalm 23: “He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake” (KJV). The Voice puts it like this: “He provides me rest in rich, green fields beside streams of refreshing water. He soothes my fears; He makes me whole again, steering me off worn, hard paths to roads where truth and righteousness echo His name.…

For instance, consider this familiar passage from Psalm 23: “He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake” (KJV). The Voice puts it like this: “He provides me rest in rich, green fields beside streams of refreshing water. He soothes my fears; He makes me whole again, steering me off worn, hard paths to roads where truth and righteousness echo His name.…

I like that in a way, but the issue can be, in tricky passages, that a translation morphs into an interpretation - thus interjecting man's opinion of what the author was writing as opposed to what the actual intent was (BTW, I don't believe the author's in Scripture ALWAYS perfectly knew ALL of the meanings and intentions of what they'd been inspired to write). So, the closer to actual meaning a translation is, the better. However, our sensibilities and perceptions related to our own language can be tainted by culture and tradition. For instance, the King James version sounded perfectly natural to people of the culture and time it was written, but can be very awkwardly understood by us today.

A really good way to study Scripture is to study multiple translations of the same verse, side by side.

Here's a great tool for this: https://www.biblestudytools.com/compare-translations/

For instance, look at this comparison of the translations of Genesis 1:1 from the above tool:

https://www.biblestudytools.com/genesis ... mpare.html