Evidence for God from Science

RickD wrote: ↑Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:36 pm

DBowling wrote:
How about if the murder victim is a born human?

It would depend on the situation. If there were a known industry that profits off the murder of born humans, like we know the abortion industry profits off the murder of unborn humans, then yes, I’d have an issue with it.

So... do you have any evidence that the 'abortion industry that profits off the murder of unborn humans' had any role in the creation of the HEK293 fetal cell line that is commonly used in medical and genetic testing?

Because the data that we do have from the Covid-19 vaccine trials and millions of vaccinations in the field indicates that the Covid-19 vaccines are both safe and effective.

No! If you choose to believe the data we do have, THERE IS STILL NO LONG TERM SAFETY DATA. Since we don’t know the long term safety of the vaccines, there is no way you can honestly say that the vaccines are safe. At best, you can take the short term safety data, and if you believe the vaccine is safe in short term, then you can hope that somehow correlates to long term.

We don't know what we don't know.
But the data THAT WE DO HAVE indicates that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe and effective.
It is the opponents of the Covid-19 vaccines who are endangering human lives by baseless claims with no supporting data.

As a pro-life Christian I would prefer if you would resist the urge to attack the effort to save millions of human live from Covid-19.

Do I hope that these vaccines eventually prove to be safe long term? Absolutely!

Well, there's one positive statement

A pro-life person would encourage anyone to lead a more healthy life style... to save human lives.
A pro-life person would encourage the use of safe and effective vaccines... to save human lives.
A pro-life person would encourage and enable bringing unwanted pregnancies to full term... to save human lives.

And an honest person would stop claiming vaccines are safe and effective, when we just don’t know that they’re safe and effective, because WE HAVE NO LONG TERM SAFETY DATA!

An honest pro-life person would acknowledge that the data we have so far from the trials and millions of vaccinations in the field indicate that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe and effective, and would encourage people to participate in a vaccination process to SAVE MILLIONS OF HUMAN LIVES!

An honest pro-life person would acknowledge that the data we have so far from the trials and millions of vaccinations in the field indicate that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe and effective, and would encourage people to participate in a vaccination process to SAVE MILLIONS OF HUMAN LIVES!

Now you’re just being dishonest. You realize that there’s absolutely no way that you could possibly know the long term effects of these vaccines, yet you still continue to claim they are safe and effective. And while you can hope these vaccines will save millions of lives, you don’t know that they will. Why do you continue to assert things that you couldn’t possibly know?
Your lack of honesty is raising some serious red flags!


DBowling,

What do you do for work? Do you work for a pharmaceutical company? Do you work for a company that will profit off of this vaccine?

Rick: Now you’re just being dishonest. You realize that there’s absolutely no way that you could possibly know the long term effects of these vaccines, yet you still continue to claim they are safe and effective. And while you can hope these vaccines will save millions of lives, you don’t know that they will. Why do you continue to assert things that you couldn’t possibly know?

Despite your other concerns about the Covid vaccines, this whole thing of "we don't know what we don't know" - I mean, you can take that to ridiculous lengths with many other types of medical treatments. I've had several vaccines. Their history shows they are, by far, a positive thing and mostly safe for most people. I just realize there will always be a level of risk with ANY treatment. Mumps, measles, polio - without vaccines, these would have killed millions! And the idea that these two Covid vaccines were developed from scratch since the pandemic began is absurd. So, are you safer with a vaccine or more at risk per what can happen if you develop Covid more dangerous. Because statistically speaking, per the history of vaccines, it's no contest that vaccines are a huge advantage and far lower risk than disease presents. I would say, for many, Covid is a far-greater threat. Those thousands of bodies stacked in morgues aren't a result of Photoshop! And we don't have to be a scientist to know this.

And those anti-vaxxers with kids in school - if they had their way, the explosion of disease would be disastrous - just look at the before and after. Are they safe for EVERYONE? - course not, as nothing is - that's just not how life works. Distrust and fear - whether of the government or medical experts - simply don't trump the statistical safety of vaccines!

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:24 am

An honest pro-life person would acknowledge that the data we have so far from the trials and millions of vaccinations in the field indicate that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe and effective, and would encourage people to participate in a vaccination process to SAVE MILLIONS OF HUMAN LIVES!

Now you’re just being dishonest. You realize that there’s absolutely no way that you could possibly know the long term effects of these vaccines, yet you still continue to claim they are safe and effective.

I'm afraid you are the one who is being dishonest here.
Neither of us knows the future with certainty.
And I never claimed to.

However, testing and rigorous trials do give us an indication of future behavior. That is why the vaccines had to successfully pass rigorous trials before they were approved for public use.
And the data that we have from testing and vaccines in the field indicate that the vaccines are safe and effective.

And while you can hope these vaccines will save millions of lives, you don’t know that they will.

Again... we can't know anything about the future with certainty.
But we can predict certain repeatable behaviors with a high level of probability. And the testing and implementation data indicate that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe and effective.
It is dishonest to assert that there is any data to indicate otherwise!

Your lack of honesty is raising some serious red flags!

Yes... YOUR dishonesty should DEFINITELY raise all kinds of red flags for anyone following this thread!!!

DBowling,
What do you do for work? Do you work for a pharmaceutical company? Do you work for a company that will profit off of this vaccine?

This is another example of your blatant dishonesty!!
You know where I live and I have previously chatted with you about what I do for a living (IT in the automotive Industry).
And you know that my work has nothing to do with any pharmaceutical company.
As an fyi... neither do my finances.

So what is the purpose of you asking absurd and misleading questions that you already know the answer to?
It's definitely not a search for anything resembling truth.

My motivation is transparent... I am a pro-life follower of Jesus Christ.
And as a pro-life Christian I care about human life, unborn AND born.
And I will unapologetically and enthusiastically support efforts to SAVE MILLIONS OF HUMAN LIVES!!

DB aren't you the one who said that you trust bodies like the FDA?

There are so many products that the FDA have approved that are outright carcinogenic and have been banned by most other countries but the US approves them. If your idea of a trustworthy institution is the FDA you are probably blinded to many other harmful institutions in the US.

Stu wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:48 am DB aren't you the one who said that you trust bodies like the FDA?

When I am researching any issue, my personal methodology is to start with identifying a consensus position from multiple subject matter experts in the field in question.
In researching the Covid-19 vaccine, the FDA was one (but not the only) source of information I relied upon. I also leaned on other institutions with trained experienced subject matter experts like the NIH and CDC.
I then accepted as credible those areas where the CDC, NIH, and FDA (and other trained medical professionals) were in agreement. And in the absence of credible data to the contrary, I am comfortable embracing the consensus opinion of multiple subject matter experts in the field.

DBowling wrote:
Neither of us knows the future with certainty.
And I never claimed to.

THEN STOP SAYING THE VACCINE IS SAFE!!!
You can’t possibly claim to know long term effects.

You don’t hear me claiming there will be horrible long term effects BECAUSE I COULD NOT POSSIBLY KNOW!

I’m saying that Since we don’t know what the long term effects are, I don’t want to play Russian roulette with a syringe.

RickD wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:13 am

DBowling wrote:
Neither of us knows the future with certainty.
And I never claimed to.

THEN STOP SAYING THE VACCINE IS SAFE!!!

I have been telling the truth.
And I will continue to tell the truth.

Rigorous testing prior to approval 'indicates' that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe and effective.
Recent vaccinations in the field also indicate that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe and effective.
All the actual data to date indicates that the Covid-19 vaccines are safe and effective.

There is no data to support the assertion that the Covid-19 vaccines are inherently ineffective or dangerous.

Based on the last 10 months, we know that millions of people will die if no additional preventive action is taken.

And... One more time...
As a pro-life Christian, I will unapologetically and enthusiastically support the use of Covid-19 vaccines to SAVE THE LIVES OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.
And the data from the Covid-19 trials and vaccinations in the field indicate that the Covid-19 vaccines are both safe and effective.

I’m saying that Since we don’t know what the long term effects are, I don’t want to play Russian roulette with a syringe.

I'm saying that based on the last 10 months, we are vividly and painfully aware of the long term effects of failing to vaccinate the population against Covid-19... millions of people will needlessly die a preventable death.

Philip wrote:
I just realize there will always be a level of risk with ANY treatment. Mumps, measles, polio - without vaccines, these would have killed millions!

This is exactly the misinformation that I’m talking about!!
Did you even do research on this? Or, did you just regurgitate what you’ve been told? You guys just spout off govt propaganda, without finding out if it’s true. And you wonder why I’m frustrated? Both of you are better than peddling this kind of misinformation.

Try reading this:

http://www.whale.to/vaccine/scheibner.html

Stating the obvious:
https://m.jpost.com/health-science/coul ... erm-649253

Best wishes to everyone here for a healthy and...
... HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Next time someone tells you that you need to get the Covid vaccine, even if you have already had the antibodies, because, “Covid antibodies only last 3 months”, ask them to explain how Memory B cells work.

Our body’s immune system is quite amazing. Our cells were designed with a memory. When we have made antibodies to a virus, our cells have a memory that lasts decades! Our cells remember the virus from before, and “repeatedly generate an accelerated and robust antibody-mediated immune response in the case of re-infection.”

Just another reason to marvel at our Amazing Creator!

The Covid vaccine is “Safe and Effective”.

Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

Dr. Dies Weeks After Receiving Covid Vaccine

NO medicine is safe for EVERYONE! One man can gulp down a bag of peanuts every day. Another can unknowingly get a small amount in some meal and it can kill him. And every time a person takes a new medicine, it's a risk. I took massive amounts of IV antibiotics for about six months - no problems - then one day I developed a dangerous allergic reaction to the one I was on and had to get off of it ASAP.

Philip wrote:
NO medicine is safe for EVERYONE!

You’re wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

This vaccine is safe and effective!!!