"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." (Psalm 19:1)
https://discussions.godandscience.org/
This is very interesting to me. Exactly what good evidence is there for the nonexistence of God?Nils wrote:
Choosing to accept him without good evidence for his existence and with good evidence for his nonexistence would be intellectual harakiri to me.
That 90+ percent of people on the planet - and that includes countless numbers of scientists and some of the greatest thinkers in all disciplines - believe that they in fact DO have plenty of evidences to believe in a deity or God. So, Nils, you're not any smarter than a lot of them and not likely on a level with some of the greatest thinkers of all time. This tells me you require a level of evidences that most others do not need. And so why is this? Yes, there is a possibility that either there's more to come for you or that you may not yet have considered or known or what can already be known from the right perspective. But don't be mistaken, God already knows whether or not you need more information or whether you are just stubbornly clinging to a position you don't want to ever move from. Also, there's a huge difference between belief in God and in also placing one's faith in Him - which are two related things, yet with very important and key differences and outcomes.Nils: As I don't want or not want that God exists there is no difference between "compel" and "force". If he gives me good arguments I will believe, if not, I will not believe.
And "if" God exists, then HE has every right to determine what He thinks is sufficient evidences for Nils - because He knows you far better than you know yourself - including all things the rest of us can't know or see about you.Nils: Unreasonable or reasonable evidence, who determines that? Those arguments/evidence I think are valid are what I think is reasonable.
Every religion on the planet is based upon what people have been taught is true by one person, supposed prophet, etc. - like a Muhammad or Joseph Smith, etc. - but they don't have the massive amounts of validated prophecies, histories, and eyewitness accounts from documented by many people for around 1,600 years of time. And guess what, those that wrote the Bible are all on the same page in what they assert. Christ's disciples ALL knew whether or not they had seen the risen, crucified Christ or not - unlike other religions assertions. And almost all of them died hideous martys deaths - for what? Being delusional? Suicidal? Crazy? Sober mean don't invite barbaric treatment for what they KNOW to be a lie. And yet, as before they saw the risen Christ, the disciples were all hiding out and terrified, and then AFTER seeing Him alive, they boldly spread the news of the Messiah across the region - fully knowing the fate they were risking. Read their writings - do they sound like crazy religious fanatics full of wild talk? Absolutely not!Nils: If you discuss how much evidence is needed, that question isn't important now, I don't see any argument at all (but the argument that many believe in Christianity and have personal experiences but the contra-argument is that that's valid for many religions.
Good luck with that one, Nils - it's a theory desperately believed by some as otherwise they must explain where the universe came from and how - you know, messy little details like observable facts that mere theories don't have to answer.Nils: Yes, there is no proof of a Multiverse as well as there is no proof of God, but work is ongoing and maybe there will be some evidence.
A staggering statement with would appear exceptionally contradictory to your position - or perhaps, what is obviously required, you just don't like to define it as intelligence?Nils: Regarding intelligence I don't think that a Multiverse needs any intelligence at all.
So, it just happens to have power that had to be, what? ETERNAL!Nils: It needs a power to create a universe with certain characteristics and it has been discussed (and theorized) that new universes could be created spontaneously.
SEEMS to be???Nils: No energy seems to be needed.
He doesn't need ANYTHING, Nils - He simply IS. He doesn't have to forecast, except perhaps for the benefit of His created beings - as He is all knowing. He is also in total control - as He is a God of unlimited abilities, how could He not be?Nils: Compare this with the omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God. He needs an intelligence beyond all beliefs. Just as start, God has to fine tune the Universe, he had to forecast every event that will happen from the beginning to the end.
Here's a quick reminderNils wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:27 amI don't even know which "evidence" you are talking about.DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:10 am
God has given evidence that everyone can understand, from an uneducated person staring up at the stars, to the educated scientist who studies how the stars and the universe actually work.
The evidence is there for all to see.
Over 90% of the world's population believes some sort of a "god" exists, so the evidence is out there and the overwhelming majority of humans on the planet recognize at least some of the evidence that is out there.
If anyone chooses to dismiss the evidence, for whatever reason, that is a decision that they choose to make and has nothing to do with either the quality or the quantity of the evidence that exists.
God has given everyone the ability to choose to accept him or reject him.
And some people simply choose to reject God and the evidence for God.
Actually it does...There are astronomers that believe in God and other that don't, so referring to them doesn't prove anything.
I'm not sure why you come to this forum, but I am very glad that you do!I don't "simply choose to reject God". If I did, why would I bother about this forum? Up to now, at least, God has not given me the ability to choose to accept him or reject him.
OK, but I would prefer to discuss that later, in a separate thread. There are so many issues.
Most persons believe without evidence, they are taught to believe. Check the correlation between parents and children. The chance to become a Christian if you have parents that are Muslims is extremely low (and the other way around).Philip wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:11 pmThat 90+ percent of people on the planet - and that includes countless numbers of scientists and some of the greatest thinkers in all disciplines - believe that they in fact DO have plenty of evidences to believe in a deity or God. So, Nils, you're not any smarter than a lot of them and not likely on a level with some of the greatest thinkers of all time. This tells me you require a level of evidences that most others do not need. And so why is this? Yes, there is a possibility that either there's more to come for you or that you may not yet have considered or known or what can already be known from the right perspective. But don't be mistaken, God already knows whether or not you need more information or whether you are just stubbornly clinging to a position you don't want to ever move from. Also, there's a huge difference between belief in God and in also placing one's faith in Him - which are two related things, yet with very important and key differences and outcomes.Nils: As I don't want or not want that God exists there is no difference between "compel" and "force". If he gives me good arguments I will believe, if not, I will not believe.
Yes, if God exists he has all rights because he has the power. And if he knows better, why doesn't he present evidence that I can accept. That would be extremely easy to him. But he doesn't, so he probably doesn't exist.And "if" God exists, then HE has every right to determine what He thinks is sufficient evidences for Nils - because He knows you far better than you know yourself - including all things the rest of us can't know or see about you.Nils: Unreasonable or reasonable evidence, who determines that? Those arguments/evidence I think are valid are what I think is reasonable.
Ask persons from other religions and all of them have arguments why their religion is the correct one.Every religion on the planet is based upon what people have been taught is true by one person, supposed prophet, etc. - like a Muhammad or Joseph Smith, etc. - but they don't have the massive amounts of validated prophecies, histories, and eyewitness accounts from documented by many people for around 1,600 years of time. And guess what, those that wrote the Bible are all on the same page in what they assert. Christ's disciples ALL knew whether or not they had seen the risen, crucified Christ or not - unlike other religions assertions. And almost all of them died hideous martys deaths - for what? Being delusional? Suicidal? Crazy? Sober mean don't invite barbaric treatment for what they KNOW to be a lie. And yet, as before they saw the risen Christ, the disciples were all hiding out and terrified, and then AFTER seeing Him alive, they boldly spread the news of the Messiah across the region - fully knowing the fate they were risking. Read their writings - do they sound like crazy religious fanatics full of wild talk? Absolutely not!Nils: If you discuss how much evidence is needed, that question isn't important now, I don't see any argument at all (but the argument that many believe in Christianity and have personal experiences but the contra-argument is that that's valid for many religions.
Both theories have little evidence, the Multiverse theory may get better evidence in the future.Good luck with that one, Nils - it's a theory desperately believed by some as otherwise they must explain where the universe came from and how - you know, messy little details like observable facts that mere theories don't have to answer.Nils: Yes, there is no proof of a Multiverse as well as there is no proof of God, but work is ongoing and maybe there will be some evidence.
Philip, it seems that you don't have any understanding at all of what randomness combined with selection can do, speaking of biological evolution. There is so much evidence of the evolution and the inherent algorithms have also been tested on computers and are often used in other fields as in electronics. They are used to find new solutions that are not possible to find with human intelligence only.A staggering statement with would appear exceptionally contradictory to your position - or perhaps, what is obviously required, you just don't like to define it as intelligence?Nils: Regarding intelligence I don't think that a Multiverse needs any intelligence at all.
So, it just happens to have power that had to be, what? ETERNAL!Nils: It needs a power to create a universe with certain characteristics and it has been discussed (and theorized) that new universes could be created spontaneously.
SEEMS to be???Nils: No energy seems to be needed.
So an unlimited number of universes with different random characteristics could then easily be created without any intelligence. What you think is a sign of intelligence is only that we, of course, happen to live in a universe suitable for life while we don't notice the infinite number of universes not suitable for life.
Without power AND intelligence, an infinite number of universes cannot explain how things are designed and connected. They can't explain a cell or DNA, etc. And do these universes LEARN, scheme, plan, plot, tweak, or do they KNOW or think? Without consciousness and an ability to do these things, all we would have would be constant and eternal chaos!
This is just playing with words. Needs to be intelligent or being intelligent.He doesn't need ANYTHING, Nils - He simply IS. He doesn't have to forecast, except perhaps for the benefit of His created beings - as He is all knowing. He is also in total control - as He is a God of unlimited abilities, how could He not be?Nils: Compare this with the omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God. He needs an intelligence beyond all beliefs. Just as start, God has to fine tune the Universe, he had to forecast every event that will happen from the beginning to the end.
What evidence are you talking about?DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:58 pmHere's a quick reminderNils wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:27 amI don't even know which "evidence" you are talking about.DBowling wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:10 am
God has given evidence that everyone can understand, from an uneducated person staring up at the stars, to the educated scientist who studies how the stars and the universe actually work.
The evidence is there for all to see.
Over 90% of the world's population believes some sort of a "god" exists, so the evidence is out there and the overwhelming majority of humans on the planet recognize at least some of the evidence that is out there.
If anyone chooses to dismiss the evidence, for whatever reason, that is a decision that they choose to make and has nothing to do with either the quality or the quantity of the evidence that exists.
God has given everyone the ability to choose to accept him or reject him.
And some people simply choose to reject God and the evidence for God.
1. Science shows overwhelming evidence of an intelligent causal agent for the creation of the our universe
… that operates "super" naturally outside of space and time
A have repeatedly mentioned the theory of Multiverse as a solution. You just repeat yourself.… that finely tuned the "laws of nature" of our universe
Evidence?… that has periodically infused new information into the biosphere of our planet
Stephen Meyers doesn't reflect the common position.Does Science Point to God?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y02a28FrMKs
2. The life, death, and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth is one of the best (if not the best) attested historical event in ancient history .
But did he die?
The Historical Evidence for Jesus' Resurrection That Even Skeptics Believe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_Db4R ... sdxQnNSthB
You have no idea why those Christian scientists believe. And you can't just ignore the others.Actually it does...There are astronomers that believe in God and other that don't, so referring to them doesn't prove anything.
It demonstrates that the evidence is compelling enough for trained scientists to observe and recognize.
Se my answer to Philip above.
And the fact that over 90% of the humans on the planet believe in some sort of "god" demonstrates that this evidence is observable across a wide spectrum of cultures, levels of education, and occupations.
I have not been presented any evidence that I think is valid. It is certainly God's fault that I'm not presented better arguments.I'm not sure why you come to this forum, but I am very glad that you do!I don't "simply choose to reject God". If I did, why would I bother about this forum? Up to now, at least, God has not given me the ability to choose to accept him or reject him.
Based on our discussions in the past, I know for a fact that you have all the information and evidence you need.
And I know that your choice to reject the evidence that has been presented to you repeatedly is not God's fault.
It seems to me that God had better bringing me evidence in some other way.
Maybe just maybe, God brought you here so that repeated exposure to the truth would help you work through whatever it is that is causing you to reject what over 90% of the people on earth can at least partially see and recognize.
Hawking has demonstrated that space and time began with the Big Bang
Actually the Multiverse is not a get out of jail free card.A have repeatedly mentioned the theory of Multiverse as a solution.… that finely tuned the "laws of nature" of our universe
The fossil record and the code in the DNA of life in our planet today demonstrate that information has repeatedly been infused into the DNA of life throughout the history of life on our planet.Evidence?… that has periodically infused new information into the biosphere of our planet
Steven Meyer is a Scientist not a Historian.
2. The life, death, and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth is one of the best (if not the best) attested historical event in ancient history .
The Historical Evidence for Jesus' Resurrection That Even Skeptics Believe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_Db4R ... sdxQnNSthB
Actually a number of scientists have explained how the evidence of design convinced them that God exists, so we do know why a number of Christian Scientists believe.You have no idea why those Christian scientists believe. And you can't just ignore the others.Actually it does...There are astronomers that believe in God and other that don't, so referring to them doesn't prove anything.
It demonstrates that the evidence is compelling enough for trained scientists to observe and recognize.
God is not the problem here,,,I have not been presented any evidence that I think is valid. It is certainly God's fault that I'm not presented better arguments.I'm not sure why you come to this forum, but I am very glad that you do!I don't "simply choose to reject God". If I did, why would I bother about this forum? Up to now, at least, God has not given me the ability to choose to accept him or reject him.
Based on our discussions in the past, I know for a fact that you have all the information and evidence you need.
And I know that your choice to reject the evidence that has been presented to you repeatedly is not God's fault.
Yes, but most DO believe in A god, gods or God – even amongst those that are merely accepting the deity of their parents’ religion! WHICH deity or the true God they believe in has nothing to do with the fact that they find belief in their recognized god or God to be intellectually reasonable.Nils: Most persons believe without evidence, they are taught to believe. Check the correlation between parents and children. The chance to become a Christian if you have parents that are Muslims is extremely low (and the other way around).
You simply don’t realize how arrogant it is to say that! Certainly not to the Creator of the universe, Whom has prolifically made it clear across 16 centuries of written Scripture that He DOES want people to believe and understand – and vast millions and many great scientists and thinkers have – but YOU can’t? I don’t find THAT reasonable. I don’t believe your unbelief is intellectual, but rather, is emotional in origin!Nils: Yes, if God exists he has all rights because he has the power. And if he knows better, why doesn't he present evidence that I can accept. That would be extremely easy to him. But he doesn't, so he probably doesn't exist.
Yes, Nils – but the problem is that NONE of the world’s religions can point to centuries of examinable, historical facts and evidences that Christianity can! The rest are like, so and so when off in a cave and came back with “revelations from god” or found some golden tablets, etc. Many, like Mormonism, can’t even establish geographical places in their supposed holy book!Nils: Ask persons from other religions and all of them have arguments why their religion is the correct one.
So, you use the word “selection,” as if blind things chose, planned, designed, and utilized things to build sophistication – blind things can do NONE of those things – and yet, you throw the word “selection” around like it’s a scientific fact. And so what exists does have sophistication and designs that can be tested – BUT WHERE DID THEY COME FROM??? And what good were they to blind things? Do blind, random things test, analyze, find meaning, plot goals, have ambitions? You do have it right, however, in that what can be observed PROVES that how things work and what exists is FAR beyond human understandings!Nils: Philip, it seems that you don't have any understanding at all of what randomness combined with selection can do, speaking of biological evolution. There is so much evidence of the evolution and the inherent algorithms have also been tested on computers and are often used in other fields as in electronics. They are used to find new solutions that are not possible to find with human intelligence only.
First place, to build a functioning universe like ours, began with EXACTLY the right things and elements coming (immediately, at the Big Bang) into existence. But those things required an Intelligence to strategically and brilliantly manipulate and arrange them. This is the oldest false belief of many atheists, as if infinite time is some magic genie that could eventually produce a magnificent universe. So, you have blind, random things driving a magnificently designed race car that just happened to pop into existence (as did the racetrack) and then it wins the Grand Prix. Actually, it’s far more absurd than that. But Nils, this sort of sophisticated-SOUNDING nonsense is precisely what a person is left with when they think no intelligence was required to create our universe. But I can understand the desperation of people who have no other options that might be realistically have the ability to explain what we know about the Big Bang, physics, biology, etc.Nils: Taking about cosmology I have only read more popular articles. Therefore I use words like "seems". But I understand some basic facts. If there is an eternal entity, Multiverse, that can start a new universe with random properties and that is repeated an infinite number of times, a fine tuned universe like ours will be started some times. If you call this property to start random universes intelligence it's up to you but I don't.
First place, it does not matter that people believing in some other god or gods embrace teachings and beliefs which don’t match up with the true God of Christianity – because these people still have the alternative of atheism if they don’t find ANY god or gods to be necessary to explain what they see and do know of.Nils: The 90% includes a wide variety of world views from theism with one God, with several Gods, animism, new age views etc. Most of them are not compatible with each other. So the 90% argument is instead an argument against the existence of a God.
Anyone looking at the information content in DNA or the design of a cell realizes they did not randomly self-assemble. To realize the razor-thin margins of so many things that just small modifications would render life impossible – and not only that, but these many things must perfectly interaction in harmonious synergies for the universe and life to function as it does. I call this examinable evidences – and VERY powerful ones, at that! And God sent prophets and apostles over 16 centuries with detailed, examinable writings - with them being written by a great diversity of people, from differing times and cultures, and yet they are all in agreement on the God of the Bible. Sixty-six books of detailed information to ponder - and yet you say God has failed to communicate basic truths? Please!Nils: How is it possible that an almighty God has failed so completely to submit at least some basic truths.
You do realize that millions embrace a certain faith because they are FORCED to – especially in Islam, atheism or other faiths are not tolerated. People leaving a faith will lose friends and family – or worse. But in many societies, there is no ONE common faith. Look at the pantheon of gods and diverse beliefs of their followers in India. Across the world, there is no ONE faith tradition! And in democracies and places with more freedom (most of the world), people have the right to choose their faith – which is where your theory falls apart, given the immense diversity of beliefs. Yes, places without such freedoms (think the various Islamic Kingdoms of dictatorships) do have a forced uniformity. Notice as well, places with severe dictatorships like North Korea, the former Soviet Union, the various communist countries – these typically mandate or heavily promote a monolithic atheism.Nils: The obvious explanation is that it is a positive feature to societies that the persons have a disposition to believe in some common religion.
We repeat it because it is a factually true statement, and you have yet to present a cogent rebuttal to this fact.
Those are some of the "scientific" evidences.What we discuss is mainly two arguments, the cosmological/philosophical argument about what entity exists that created the universe, and the evolutionary argument about if there is teleology in the evolution or not, if God controls it. I think very few of the worlds population understand those discussions at all or know something about the pros and cons. Therefore it isn't possible that they mostly used these arguments as a reason for there beliefs.
There is one very significant similarity among the many different world views that provides yet another evidence of the existence of a God.The 90% includes a wide variety of world views from theism with one God, with several Gods, animism, new age views etc. Most of them are not compatible with each other. So the 90% argument is instead an argument against the existence of a God.
From where did you get this?DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:24 am
Actually the Multiverse is not a get out of jail free card.
- First and foremost there is no empirical evidence of a Multiverse
- Next the Multiverse hypothesis just kicks the can up the road. Every proposed mechanism for a Multiverse generator requires extremely tight boundary conditions and fine tuning for the Multiverse generating math to work.
So the same "fine tuning" and design realities that exist in our universe also exist for any alleged Multiverse generator.
You refer apparently to the ideas of Intelligent Design that has been refuted repeatedly. Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory because it can't be falsified. How could you possibly show that a specific step in the evolution is made by infusion of DNA? By fossil records ?!! Check what is written about Stephen Meyer on Wikipedia.The fossil record and the code in the DNA of life in our planet today demonstrate that information has repeatedly been infused into the DNA of life throughout the history of life on our planet.Evidence?… that has periodically infused new information into the biosphere of our planet
Steven Meyer is a Scientist not a Historian.
2. The life, death, and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth is one of the best (if not the best) attested historical event in ancient history .
The Historical Evidence for Jesus' Resurrection That Even Skeptics Believe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_Db4R ... sdxQnNSthB
Steven Meyer shows the scientific evidence that points to a "God" that is consistent with classic Theism.
But to dig into the claims of specific religious beliefs you need Historians and Theologians.
And Historians like Gary Habermas and NT Wright have both done excellent research into the Historical reality of the life, death, and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.
The Apostle Paul tells us that the truth of Christianity is based on the historical reality of a single event, the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
I understand that this is what you want believe, but is totally wrong in one case (evolution) and not proven in the other case (Jesus' death).So once science established the reality of an intelligent "God" who created the universe.
And once history established the reality of the death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.
I discuss this in a separate post.The next step for me was to study what Jesus of Nazareth did and taught, and the rest of my faith journey proceeds from there.
Actually a number of scientists have explained how the evidence of design convinced them that God exists, so we do know why a number of Christian Scientists believe.You have no idea why those Christian scientists believe. And you can't just ignore the others.Actually it does...There are astronomers that believe in God and other that don't, so referring to them doesn't prove anything.
It demonstrates that the evidence is compelling enough for trained scientists to observe and recognize.
What I can't ignore is the evidence that has convinced over 90% of people on the planet (including many scientists) that some sort of God exists.
I respond to him seperately
Yes, you are right that it is a basic intuitive human ability to recognize "design". But now, with Darwin, the evolution, and computer science, it is shown by massive research that that intuition often is mistaken.Those are some of the "scientific" evidences.What we discuss is mainly two arguments, the cosmological/philosophical argument about what entity exists that created the universe, and the evolutionary argument about if there is teleology in the evolution or not, if God controls it. I think very few of the worlds population understand those discussions at all or know something about the pros and cons. Therefore it isn't possible that they mostly used these arguments as a reason for there beliefs.
But as has been mentioned before, one does not have to have to have a degree in science to observe the evidence in nature for the existence of a "god"
One of basic aspects of human intellect is the ability to recognize "design". And this basic intuitive human ability to recognize "design" is a significant contributor to the understanding of the overwhelming majority of the human population that the existence of "design" logically points to the existence of a "designer".
You should read real science and not only Meyer.Science just confirms what natural human intellect intuitively recognizes.
I have an other explanation (which you choose not to quote!)This is why 90% of humans from different cultures, educational levels, and occupations all recognize the evidence that is abundant in nature at both the intuitive and scientific levels that some sort of "god" exists.There is one very significant similarity among the many different world views that provides yet another evidence of the existence of a God.The 90% includes a wide variety of world views from theism with one God, with several Gods, animism, new age views etc. Most of them are not compatible with each other. So the 90% argument is instead an argument against the existence of a God.
As we look at very different cultures and faiths across the planet, there is an incredibly strong instinctive desire within the human creature to know his creator.
So where did this instinctive longing that is present in an overwhelming percentage of humans across the globe come from? Why is it there?...
The answer is pretty straightforward...
Whoever or whatever designed the human creature, designed it with a strong instinctive drive to know its creator.
Not any evidence at all!
So we have two very powerful evidences of God that are available to every human on the planet (not just scientists).
1. The intuitive intellectual ability in humans to recognize design.
2. The instinctive drive in humans to know their creator.
Sorry, I don't understand what you try to say.Philip wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:56 amFirst place, it does not matter that people believing in some other god or gods embrace teachings and beliefs which don’t match up with the true God of Christianity – because these people still have the alternative of atheism if they don’t find ANY god or gods to be necessary to explain what they see and do know of.Nils: The 90% includes a wide variety of world views from theism with one God, with several Gods, animism, new age views etc. Most of them are not compatible with each other. So the 90% argument is instead an argument against the existence of a God.
Nobody claims that they randomly self-assemble. (Do you understand the evolution theory?)Anyone looking at the information content in DNA or the design of a cell realizes they did not randomly self-assemble.Nils: How is it possible that an almighty God has failed so completely to submit at least some basic truths.
I'm not clear about what you are talking. Is this the fine-tuning argument?To realize the razor-thin margins of so many things that just small modifications would render life impossible – and not only that, but these many things must perfectly interaction in harmonious synergies for the universe and life to function as it does. I call this examinable evidences – and VERY powerful ones, at that!
I was talking about how he communicated to majority of the 90%, the non-Christians . Those who never read these books.And God sent prophets and apostles over 16 centuries with detailed, examinable writings - with them being written by a great diversity of people, from differing times and cultures, and yet they are all in agreement on the God of the Bible. Sixty-six books of detailed information to ponder - and yet you say God has failed to communicate basic truths? Please!
I was talking about an evolutionary developed genetic disposition to believe in religions.Again, you ignore the Scriptural evidences and fulfilled prophecies – which I’m guessing you know very little about. They are powerful and unmistakable – not like some ridiculous musings of Nostradamus or similar nonsense. And you’ll not find more than a caricature or superficial examination of such things (verified by history and events) on atheist sites, etc.
You do realize that millions embrace a certain faith because they are FORCED to – especially in Islam, atheism or other faiths are not tolerated. People leaving a faith will lose friends and family – or worse. But in many societies, there is no ONE common faith. Look at the pantheon of gods and diverse beliefs of their followers in India. Across the world, there is no ONE faith tradition! And in democracies and places with more freedom (most of the world), people have the right to choose their faith – which is where your theory falls apart, given the immense diversity of beliefs. Yes, places without such freedoms (think the various Islamic Kingdoms of dictatorships) do have a forced uniformity. Notice as well, places with severe dictatorships like North Korea, the former Soviet Union, the various communist countries – these typically mandate or heavily promote a monolithic atheism.Nils: The obvious explanation is that it is a positive feature to societies that the persons have a disposition to believe in some common religion.
A number of places actually...Nils wrote: ↑Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:20 pmFrom where did you get this?DBowling wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:24 am
Actually the Multiverse is not a get out of jail free card.
- First and foremost there is no empirical evidence of a Multiverse
- Next the Multiverse hypothesis just kicks the can up the road. Every proposed mechanism for a Multiverse generator requires extremely tight boundary conditions and fine tuning for the Multiverse generating math to work.
So the same "fine tuning" and design realities that exist in our universe also exist for any alleged Multiverse generator.
Design is of course evident in the code in the DNA of life on our planet.You refer apparently to the ideas of Intelligent Design that has been refuted repeatedly. Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory because it can't be falsified. How could you possibly show that a specific step in the evolution is made by infusion of DNA?The fossil record and the code in the DNA of life in our planet today demonstrate that information has repeatedly been infused into the DNA of life throughout the history of life on our planet.Evidence?… that has periodically infused new information into the biosphere of our planet
Actually the opposite is true.Steven Meyer is a Scientist not a Historian.
2. The life, death, and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth is one of the best (if not the best) attested historical event in ancient history .
The Historical Evidence for Jesus' Resurrection That Even Skeptics Believe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_Db4R ... sdxQnNSthB
Steven Meyer shows the scientific evidence that points to a "God" that is consistent with classic Theism.
But to dig into the claims of specific religious beliefs you need Historians and Theologians.
And Historians like Gary Habermas and NT Wright have both done excellent research into the Historical reality of the life, death, and Resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.
The Apostle Paul tells us that the truth of Christianity is based on the historical reality of a single event, the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead.
How do you prove historically that Jesus really died. There were only a few persons that witnessed the burial of Jesus and they could easily have agreed that Jesus was dead even if he wasn't. They had a motive and an opportunity.
Once again, the reverse is true...I understand that this is what you want believe, but is totally wrong in one case (evolution) and not proven in the other case (Jesus' death)So once science established the reality of an intelligent "God" who created the universe.
And once history established the reality of the death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.