Evidence for God from Science

SUGAAAAA wrote:Well Jesus said that if you lust after another women, you have commited adultery in your heart, but didnt that apply to married men lusting after woman (not including their wife)?

Oh ok, so its ok for people who arent married?

Im not so sure as of yet and I dont think there is a direct answer, as there are many different views on it, some people think its a sin, others dont...

some points that are usually brought up, is the WWJD... or, would you do it if Jesus was there with you?

Still, others think its stupid to ignore the sexual desire that you were created with... especially those who are single; not having a wife thus not being able to satisfy it. and a few medical points are brought up as well, showing it to benefit the body.

So i guess its all opinion really... here's a pretty nice thread on another forum debating on the wether masturbation is sinful or not:

http://forums.christianity.com/Masturba ... 840/tm.htm

SUGAAAAA wrote:Still, others think its stupid to ignore the sexual desire that you were created with... especially those who are single; not having a wife thus not being able to satisfy it. and a few medical points are brought up as well, showing it to benefit the body.

Quite right, again I have to bring my dad being the doctor into this picture. According to him, and I often misinterpret things that he says on here , but I'm pretty sure I am right on this one, mentions that masturbation is a healthy process for the body. He has had one patient (perhaps more) that has had testicular problems due to the lack of having orgasms. The fluid builds up, and has no where to go, so it is either masturbation or wet dreams, and if you want to bring God into this picture, both would be considered a sin, although maybe not with wet dreams since you aren't controlling it, but having sexual dreams to make it happen, (yet not mentioned in the Bible) because having any secretion of sexual bodily fluids is considered having sex with yourself and not with a partner. While I feel that my dad among other medical doctors know that masturbation is okay, and I would think so too, the Bible still mentions nothing of this except in Leviticus in the Old Testament, and a verse in the New Testament that says something like if you keep on willfully sinning, a sacrifice no longer remains. Jesus "revised" the Old Testament Law once He came to earth, and I feel it is equally as strict, also keeping the 10 Commandments in check. I honestly think that it is only unhealthy and a sin if you think lustful thoughts about someone while masturbating to provoke a better orgasm and such, as well as doing it to any type of pornography. Anything that makes you "want to". I find that if masturbation was such a terrible thing, it would be mentioned explicitly in the Bible, but it isn't rarely mentioned, in the word of masturbation. However, there are things like lusting that can become sin if manifested in masturbation. My views on the "WWJD" are simply that as He as a Holy God, He does not care for these acts, if He is standing next to you while you are masturbating, what would He say? Well, first it is His examination of your heart and mind while you are doing it, if you aren't thinking of anything bad and your mind is clear, then I would assume that it would be okay because as often mentioned, we are created sexual beings. But we weren't created sexual beings for sinful self desire. So I would say that while God did make us like this, I would think it is okay, AS LONG as you don't put anything sinful in your mind, which happens often with most people. Of course, this is my opinion, and is subject to dissection and agreement and/or disagreement. I think this is an important topic as my long best friend asked me this question and I also confronted my dad on it, being a committed Christian of 54-55 years and being a medical doctor. I have also gotten opinions from my psychiatrist and he thinks it is okay, but he thinks bringing sinful thoughts into it isn't bad (he is a Jew, I have nothing against them), and my Christian counselor I THINK seems to believe it is okay under certain restrictions as I mentioned above. Take with it as you will. Just remember, as with anything, masturbation can become an addiction (I am still a recovering victim of this ), so I would say do it once a week or every other week, and keep your mind clean, or don't do it at all, and show your true love for Christ .

Looks like ive sinned but isnt it ok if your bot going to do it in real life, but just do it in your kin, becauses its causing noone harm..

Jay_7 wrote:Looks like ive sinned but isnt it ok if your bot going to do it in real life, but just do it in your kin, becauses its causing noone harm..

I don't understand this....

so Brian, you believe masturbation is ok as long as you dont think any lustful thats while doing it?


It sounds dumb but it is possible, many people claim to do this, and technically I guess its not a sin if you do that.


What I have concluded (for me) is that masturbation is ok occasionally, like you said, not let it become an addiction or a routine thing... For instance, i'll only commit such acts when it becomes really bothering mentaly, like having a strong urge that wont leave, and that happens sometimes... then I believe its ok to satisfy the urge, as it doesnt seem right to fight this mental 'torment' when the solution is so simple...

But most of the time I try to fight it, and I usually avoid any images or scenes that might lead me to lust... then if it happens, I usually ask God to forgive me if I have sinned, and to help me fight the urges, of course...

Believer wrote:

Jay_7 wrote:Looks like ive sinned but isnt it ok if your not going to do it in real life, but just do it in your mind, because its causing noone harm..

I don't understand this....

i mean mind not kin, LOL. I have no idea how i typed that..

SUGAAAAA wrote:so Brian, you believe masturbation is ok as long as you dont think any lustful thats while doing it?


It sounds dumb but it is possible, many people claim to do this, and technically I guess its not a sin if you do that.


What I have concluded (for me) is that masturbation is ok occasionally, like you said, not let it become an addiction or a routine thing... For instance, i'll only commit such acts when it becomes really bothering mentaly, like having a strong urge that wont leave, and that happens sometimes... then I believe its ok to satisfy the urge, as it doesnt seem right to fight this mental 'torment' when the solution is so simple...

But most of the time I try to fight it, and I usually avoid any images or scenes that might lead me to lust... then if it happens, I usually ask God to forgive me if I have sinned, and to help me fight the urges, of course...

Yes, I know this whole masturbation issue is huge to lots of people that live a life for God while concerned of how they should deal with it. Obviously, it shouldn't become an addiction, and if it does, ask the Lord for help to recover. I prayed and asked for it and I am currently recovering. It was really bad for almost a decade and when those prayers started going, I just didn't really have the urge to do it multiple times a day. I do it once a week or two weeks now, and this healing/recovery kicked in pretty quickly for something that was that addicting. I do remember that God did something to me March of 2004 that changed me. God/Jesus KNOWS this would happen among men and women. We ARE sexual beings. Medically (from God), studies have shown masturbation is healthy, just don't think lustful things to it.

Believer wrote:... so I would say do it once a week or every other week, and keep your mind clean, or don't do it at all, and show your true love for Christ .

The bolded part is what it is all about, avoiding masturbation is the best thing, which is why wet dreams will kick in and are natural.

Once4all wrote:I'm not advocating this website in general. Some stuff is a little weird. Nor am I implying agreement or disagreement with the article. However, they do have a biblical study on the subject:

http://www.atruechurch.info/home.html

Scroll down the left side to the "Controversy" area and there you will find it.

Once4all

how and where on earth did you find that website? I cant believe what I was reading there, really it was unbelievable, talk about decieved!

FYI I didnt even get the part regarding masterbation, I was too shocked by this guy and his "true church" doctrine, wow

Believer wrote:

Once4all wrote:I'm not advocating this website in general. Some stuff is a little weird. Nor am I implying agreement or disagreement with the article. However, they do have a biblical study on the subject:

http://www.atruechurch.info/home.html

Scroll down the left side to the "Controversy" area and there you will find it.

Once4all

This website sums it up for me, it's hard as hell to get into heaven!

Hey Believer

Do you truly believe in this Website and what it says. The First Paragraph sums it up for me! Then the Second it goes on and Judges the Ministers, and Pastors or Well Known people who have devoted their lives to Christ and his Ministry. Just listen to the Nonsense!

If you are involved with the kind of Christianity that views the "church of Christ", or Billy Graham, or Rick Warren, or James Dobson, or Pat Robertson, or John MacArthur, or Tony Evans, or Greg Laurie, or Charles Stanley, or Chuck Smith, or Fred Price, or J. Vernon McGee, or Charles Blake, or Chuck Swindoll, or T. D. Jakes, or David Jeremiah, or Charles Spurgeon, or Dave Hunt, or David W. Cloud, or Perry F Rockwood, or Neil Anderson, or Robert Schuller, or Jack Hayford, or Benny Hinn, or Miles McPherson, or Ray Comfort, or Chuck Colson, or C. S. Lewis, or Pope John Paul, or Hank Hanegraaff, or Paul Chappell, or any of the like (or any of the likes on "Christian" TV or radio) as godly men, you are not saved. Why? Because, you are on the broad way (Matthew 7:13; 2 Peter 2:2; 2 Timothy 4:3). You have not the characteristic of Christ's sheep (John 10:5). And, men such as these are wells without water (2 Peter 2:17).

Oh and this one... Lovely!

TRUE BELIEVERS HATE

"Do I not HATE them, O Lord, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I HATE them with perfect HATRED; I count them my enemies." Psalm 139:21-22

"If anyone comes to Me and does not HATE his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he CANNOT be my disciple." Luke 14:26 (Ps 119:104, Ps 31:6, Rom 12:9, Prov 8:13)

TRUE BELIEVERS LOVE

"If someone says, 'I love God,' and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?" 1 John 4:20-21 (Matt 5:44)

"Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us. . ." Ephesians 5:1-2 (2 Tim 2:22)

huh! thanks for whoever posted the website lol i was looking something on this topic and so will go in order...
first, masturbation. well, looks like the general view is "its ok - not sinful unless it involves lust". thats the general view accepted by most people, i'd say. fair enough, had i been non-catholic i'd say "sweet i love that!". dont wana impose any views - tho i am catholic. catholic church believes... that it is "intrinsically wrong to masturbate or use contraception or lie" sorry for putting em all together.
well, that emaning its not the intention or consequences which matter, butthat some facts are evil by themselves. again, some catholics i know (a friend of mine started questioning faith in catholicism and God in general and gave up church for a while! yes he needs prayers...) dont follow that and many dont even know its a sin! i personally dont do it, because of this. however, i can see why one holds such view. if it is said to behealthy and so - exactly! i have a problem with it too. why shud something be evil? Catholicism is based on infallability etc and thats complicated...
Nevertheless i got my ahnds on a book by Peter Vardy "The puzzle of sex" and it sums it up. criticizes all doctrines and how they're based on false assumptions, that it was long ago and nothing was known of human body. also says sex should be of pure love and devotion to person, but doesnt necesarily say sex MUST be in marriage or homosexual sex is bad. it poses the possibility some verses' translation isnt clear, and that theres some verse saying that God likes any type of love etc. Well... so, this book also holds view that i heard and i quite like (ignoring my catholicism for a while) - that its like with other things... its not by itself, its if one gets addicted to it. if one is unable to stop it and thinks bad things THEN it is bad, not on itself.
than again i AM catholic, and SHOULD believe i am right and that what it teaches is right and that disobey a doctrine is SIN; hence it would amount to disobedience of church AND would be a mortal sin sicne i 1)know its a sin (according to CCC) and 2) is of "grave matter" and 3) with full conscience and 4) yet agree to it, knowing its serious rebellion against God. Again, many here may think thats pathetic that catholics are wrong etc. But, i shud believe it (and, even if the argument of NATURAL LAW is not too strong apparently, and some claim based on wrong assumptions suchas that human nature is unique (not true as different genes etc) and others) and if i dont then im going against my church. Yes i do challenge my views and RCC. Not to say i obey it; or try to obey it, tho questioning things and not necessarily claiming "this MUST BE THE TRUTH". And to be honest with u guys, yes, fear DOES play a role. im afraid that if it IS the truth and i would have disobeyed it, i am without excuse before God. That had i been raised noncatholic, and masturbated and used condoms and was never told its wrong, i may have excuse - but now i dont. Hence, its safer not to do it. In case its false, then congratulations, psychology of religion has made its way to bring people to be scared and do what they want... indeed psychology of religion is interesting...!

Seondly, that website... not only it defies catholics (it says how they are wrong and end up in hell and gives a list of things, it is non-trinitarian, and holds other views we'd say as herecy. it says in a section named "where do we stand" i think that they beliebve in total predestination. then, why do they bother making us believe the "right" thing if we are saved according to predestination solely? says God only loved some and not the rest; it does have some Scriptural verses but i believe it took em totally out of context since we know God loves everybody (then again why some end up in hell despite God's knowing they are gonna end up and Him still allowing em to be born is a different issue).

I have the feeling we should send some lovely email to them explaining to them why THEY are blatantly wrong... isnt that our duty to teach these who are false, anyway? Ironically of course, they wana persuade US we are wrong...

Any ideas on either?

ochotseat wrote:

Dan wrote: But what about the fantasies associated with the act? .

What if you don't fantasize about anything or you fantasize about nonsexual things while you do it?

If masturbation is a sin, we're all guilty of it!

AMEN! show me a teenager who who claimes he has never commited the act of what I would call self gradificatrion rather than self abuse and I will show you a person who is most likely guilty of the sin of telling a lie.