Evidence for God from Science

Mastermind wrote:I am skeptical of your ability to detect sarcasm, for starters...

Whose sarcasm?

Angels and Celestial beings are something to consider because thier metaphysical and ancient nature. I do not worship angels or slander celestial beings...To add, the Bible describes angels as messengers and winds, thousands and thousands who serve God and God only.

Humans create other humans, animals create other animals....

Creating ex nihilo we're talking about. Starting with nothing the way God did and ending up with something. This create-to bring into existence. We can't do none of that.

Psalms 103:20 - Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.


Angels are all powerful in the works of the LORD.

What does this have to do with the main argument? Not being mean, but it's not very relevant. They're powerful, but nothing is said about creating like God can.

Didnt see it as mean

I am merely directing the passage to the question not to an argument. The question is/was Can angels create?

"Hebrew words translated 'God' is 'Elohim', which really means 'mighty ones'; these 'mighty ones' who carry God's Name can effectively be called 'God' because of their close association with Him. These beings are the Angels."

A man fathers a child and that child fathers a child and so on. One cant create without the other. The created was created thru a creator. Thus one has a created a mighty family who carries the name of the father.

Sometimes my "thoughts" are not clear in translation. And the passage may do little to conclude but its in my thought,

Can angels create? Yes, I believe they can but not without the works of the LORD.

Actually thru reverse engineering in an odd way - a better question might be who/what created God?

Michael wrote:Can angels create? Yes, I believe they can but not without the works of the LORD.

I disagree. Angels certainly do the works of the Lord, but so do we when we are following Him. To actually instantiate matter and/or whatever substance the spiritual realm is made of, I believe God to be the only one capable. We can transform God's creation, but cannot create anew. And I see no good reason for thinking that angels would have those capabilities.

Consider that maybe God can create because His existance supercedes the universe - so it is God's timeless nature that enables the ability to break the rules of our universe. Though angels are not bound by our physical world, they would seem to be bound by time and thus not able to completely supercede the universe in which they exist. Given that, I must conclude they cannot create.

Correct Felgar. I think we actually do agree. The creation I speak maybe overly complicating my translation.

You wrote:

Though angels are not bound by our physical world, they would seem to be bound by time and thus not able to completely supercede the universe in which they exist. Given that, I must conclude they cannot create.

I'm assuming GOD has not created mindless souls for angels and therefore must possess to some degree a free will of thought, mind you bound by our universe & GOD.

Thought can lead to creation both physical and spiritual. I've read somewhere that there are 9 ranks of Angels.

Angels>Archangels>Principality>powers>Virtues>Dominions>Thrones>Cherubims>Seriphim

It almost sounds to me like a Corporation with GOD being the CEO of heavan and his CEO>XCEO>NSM>RGM>DSM>GM>GSM>SM>SLS>

Each having free will of thought that leads to creation but not without the consent his boss and then his boss and then his boss.

Michael wrote:I'm assuming GOD has not created mindless souls for angels and therefore must possess to some degree a free will of thought, mind you bound by our universe & GOD.

Thought can lead to creation both physical and spiritual.

Well, if that's the definition you want to put on creating then I agree, and I would also conclude that humans can create too. However I'm not fond of your defintion.

For one, I would draw a distinct line between creating a new object from nothingness vs building that object. One is creation, and one is transformation. I would also draw a line between creating a physical object and creating a thought or concept. Unfortunately that line is somewhat blurry because we have not been able to define the substance of our thoughts.

You ever notice how the good book is full of metaphors? Must be by design to allow one to follow his/her own convictions, thoughts and conscience.

Dunno, perhaps.

"Hebrew words translated 'God' is 'Elohim', which really means 'mighty ones'; these 'mighty ones' who carry God's Name can effectively be called 'God' because of their close association with Him. These beings are the Angels."

(it's on this site under sexism in the Bible or something...and how it's a myth) Well the word used for Eve in Hebrew is also used for God once in Genesis, but that doesn't mean Eve has the powerful abilities of God. And, according to what you said Michael, angels actually cannot create-you said yourself. Only through God, you said, which means God is doing the creating.

Yes I think thats what we all conclude, just expanding on the "create".