Something is eternal.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Tue May 17, 2005 4:45 pm

Frank, since when is God a physical entity?

Frank2005 · Post by **Frank2005** » Tue May 17, 2005 5:49 pm

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Frank, since when is God a physical entity?

By a broad definition, God (the intelligent life in the bulk universe) is a physical entity because He is made up of the matter that can be described by physical laws - the string theory.

By a narrow definition, God is not a physical entity because the matter that constitutes the kingdom of God is entirely different from our matter. You cannot see them by light or other electromagnetic waves which will pass through their matter without being reflected at all. In this sense, God is a spirit.

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Related Link:

Why can't we see God? - A scientific explanation

AttentionKMartShoppers · Tue May 17, 2005 7:12 pm

Voosh. So, God now exists in a physical bulk universe, which He didn't create, but was created by....(and you have just destroyed God by this theory of yours...) (in your theory God is dead/not God).

Frank2005 · Post by **Frank2005** » Tue May 17, 2005 8:12 pm

In the beginning, the bulk universe has only vacuum governed by physical laws. It is the aseity, no cause for its existence. See my post here.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Wed May 18, 2005 4:40 pm

And, so what is God to you? Just some being who managed to navigate the bulk universe? Who evolved or something and learned immortality?

confused...

Frank2005 · Post by **Frank2005** » Wed May 18, 2005 8:46 pm

God to me is just like God to most God's believers. I became a God's believer well before I found any physical evidence for His existence. As I said, knowing the physical nature of a rainbow does not make rainbow less beautiful. The physical evidence of God makes me even more convinced that there is indeed a God.

God (the intelligent life in the bulk universe) could be immortal, or near immortal. With human's intelligence, we have found the mechanism for aging. In the near future, human's lifespan could be dramatically extended. With God's intelligence, to make life immortal should not be a problem.

j316 · Post by **j316** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 5:36 am

I wonder if we aren't just chasing phantoms when we start talking about time and no-time and matter vs nothing. Whenever you see opposites like that there is something at the center that they are expressions of. In other words there is something that appears to be matter from one aspect yet is nothing from another. Same thing with what we call time. I'm not even certain that we can really understand what they really are, I think they are outside our realm of experience.

Grommit · Post by **Grommit** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:56 am

[The Uncertainty Principle allows virtual particles to be created from vacuum spontaneously - a process known as quantum fluctuation. The intelligent life (God) in the bulk universe may evolve from the virtual particles created by quantum fluctuation... by Frank2005]

Frank2005, in my limited understanding of virtual particles (and I emphasize that), I thought that virtual particles pop into existence and pop right back out of existence in an instant with a net result of nothing. How could something that is both created and destroyed in an instant and results in the creation of nothing ever get us to a place where we have a stable anything, be it God or the bulk universe?

Thanks

AttentionKMartShoppers · Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:03 pm

Also, to add on to Grommit...the vacuum isn't really empty space as I recall-there exists a sea of energy, am I right?

Frank2005 · Post by **Frank2005** » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:12 pm

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:the vacuum isn't really empty space as I recall-there exists a sea of energy, am I right?

You are right, but the vacuum energy IS the energy of the virtual particles created by quantum fluctuation.

Grommit wrote:I thought that virtual particles pop into existence and pop right back out of existence in an instant with a net result of nothing. How could something that is both created and destroyed in an instant and results in the creation of nothing ever get us to a place where we have a stable anything

Stable matter can be created from vacuum without violating the energy conservation law because the gravitational energy is negative which may compensate for the positive matter energy. Suppose in the spirit world that exists in the bulk universe, there is a "spirit hydrogen atom" consisting of a "spirit electron" and a "spirit proton. If the gravitational energy between the spirit electron and the spirit proton is exactly the same (but opposite sign) as the matter energy of the spirit electron and the spirit proton, a spirit hydrogen atom can be created stably -- no quantum fluctuations are needed.

Since the above two energies are unlikely to be exactly the same, we need quantum fluctuation to create a stable spirit hydrogen atom. Suppose both spirit electron and spirit proton pop into existence separately by quantum fluctuation, as you mentioned, they only have a short lifetime dictated by the uncertainty principle. During their lifetime, they may interact with each other to form a spirit hydrogen atom (possibly accompanied by some kind of radiation so that the entire process satisfy the energy conservation law).

In our braneworld, the gravitational force is extremely weak. The gravitational energy between the electron and proton is many orders of magnitude smaller than the matter energy of an electron and a proton. Even though some particles are constantly created from the vaccum, they are unlikly to form stable matter during their lifetime. This is the reason why they are called "virtual particles". In fact, the particles created from the vacuum by quantum fluctuations are real.

The following two conditions will favor the creation of stable matter from vacuum: (1) strong gravitational force, and (2) high vacuum energy density. It seems that the bulk universe may posess the two conditions.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:07 pm

Spirit atoms? So the spiritual realm isn't non-material...it's matter, but with a new twist on it.

Frank2005 · Post by **Frank2005** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:11 am

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:So the spiritual realm isn't non-material...it's matter, but with a new twist on it.

You are right. The string theory can tell us exactly the difference between our matter and spirit matter: Our matter is made up of "open string" particles while the spirit matter should be made up of "closed string" particles. This can also explain why the spirit matter cannot be seen (or detected) by light or any other electromagnetic waves (photons). The following is a brief summary. Further detail is given in the article, Why Can't We See God? - A scientific explanation.

According to the string theory, an elementary particle is considered as a "string" with extremely short length. The particle string can be either "open" (with two endpoints, like a violin string) or "closed" (no endpoints, like a ring). In contrast to a violin string whose endpoints are fixed on a wooden board, the endpoints of an open particle string are fixed in a "brane" (as in membrane), which is a sub-space within the 10 dimensional bulk space. The open string particles cannot escape from the sub-space, thereby constituting a braneworld. However, the closed string particles can go anywhere in the bulk space because they have no endpoints to be fixed with.

All our matter particles are open string particles fixed in a three dimensional space. The force-carrier particles that mediate three fundamental forces (electromagnetic, strong and weak nuclear forces) are also open string particles. The graviton which carries the gravitational force is the only known particle which is a closed string.

The matter of the spirit world must not contain any "charge" because chages arise from electromagnetic interaction but the photon which carries such interaction is an open string particle, unique for our braneworld. The reason we can see (or detect) our matter by electromagnetic waves is because our matter particles contain charges (except neutrino which is hard to detect). Since the spirit matter does not contain charges, the photons will pass through it without being reflected at all.

The invisible dark energy and dark matter could be the spirit matter used to facilitate the creation of our braneworld.

AttentionKMartShoppers · Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:25 pm

So, you run into a problem, wouldn't you?

1) If God exists in the same space we inhabit (except he has closed strings of course) He cannot be omniopent-He can't be everywhere at once
2) Jesus? Jesus was fully man and fully God, and we could see Him, so He couldn't have been spiritual matter at the time (or He'd be invisible)...but yet, He was still a deity-so you have a conflict between Jesus' strings-they would have to be open, yet closed.

Interesting stuff, but I cannot see how it fits the whole puzzle-pieces of it, but not the whole thing.