Evidence for God from Science

jakelo wrote:Oh..well

Atleast everyone knows my position with the mormon church now

God saved you.

Jakleo and ochotseat,

I understand you don't believe in LDS theology because you don't believe in Deification. You mention the missionaries tend to be ignorant of their own faith. My question is how aquainted you are with your own faith. It seems you are implying that the idea that man can become like God is unique to Mormonism when it is a Christian teaching. There are significant differences on the nature of God with Mormons and mainstream Christians, but the early christian father taught that Man could become like God. Here are some examples,
“We have not been made Gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length Gods.” -Irenaeus

“The Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. Just as the Lord, putting on the body became a man, so also we men are deified through his flesh and henceforth inherit everlasting life.” - Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria

“They see that from Him, there began the union of the divine with human nature, in order that the human, by communion with the divine, might rise to be divine, not in Jesus alone, but in all those who not only believe, but enter upon the life which Jesus taught.” -Origen

“We have learned hat those only are deified who have lived near to God in holiness and virtue.” — Justin Martyr

“It is He alone who can make Gods.”- Tertullian

“What man is, Christ was willing to be, that man also may be what Christ is… What Christ is, we Christians shall be, if we imitate Christ.” - Cyprian

“If one knows himself, he will know God, and knowing God, will be like God.” - Clement of Alexandria
You have the right to disagree and disbelieve, but you shouldn't criticise a religion without really trying to understand where they are coming from. Mormons believe they have restored truths that were lost after the Apostles were killed. This is why there is a difference in Protestant/ Catholic theology and Mormonism. Mormons are viewed as unchristian mainly because they do not beleive in the trinity the way most Protestants and Catholics do, you call Mormons heretics. That is ok, but have you ever wondered if trinitarianism was heresy when it was given sanction in the 4th Century?(look up trinity on wikipedia.com) I am a Latter Day Saint who is faithfull to my religion and believe in it's doctrine, but I respect other peoples beliefs. I can see why someone would not beleive the way that I do, but that makes no difference whether or not it is true or false, it just means we don't see things the same way. It is ok to differ, but let's not make overgeneralized statements about the others beliefs. There are several other comments you have made that I would like to rspond to and defend, but I would see it as fruitless. I just ask for enough respect to not sensationalize or belittle the differences between you and other religions and recognize that in doing so you belittle your own beliefs. I am not an apologist or a scholar, I am a Christain who believes that God has spoken in our day. I don't write this with any hope that I will make you a believer, but I want to be understood before I am criticized.

Sincerely,
Your friend the heretic

If the deification of man was the only example of heretical doctrine among Mormons, you might have a point. A very tenuous point since the Bible is very vague on the issue(we know in morality and righteousness, but anything beyond that we can only guess), but a point nonetheless.

It's not the only heretical doctrine, nor the one we should be most concerned with.

God was once a man -- Mormon doctrine teaches that as man is, God once was. It even goes further than this and claims that, at least when God was a man, He served a goddess whose name he keeps secret for sacred reasons. And that the cycle doesn't end there, but goes on into the past into perpetuity. The Bible, on the other hand, states very clearly that God just is, always has been, and always will be, and that God does not change. He was not once a man, but has always been God.

Denial of Christ's deity -- Like other Arian religions, Mormonism denies the deity of Christ. He is treated as an exalted spirit, but not God in the Biblical sense. This of course contradicts the first chapter of John, John 20:28, Matthew 14:33, I John 5:7, among other verses that make Christ's divinity undeniable.

Salvation by Works -- This is a quick and easy way to eliminate a particular group as Christian. Mormon doctrine teaches that it is works such as baptism, good deeds, missionary work, and following Mormon teachings that saves a person. The Bible, on the other hand, makes it clear that works do not cause Salvation, but rather faith. Other places in the Bible make it clear that the kind of faith that saves will produce works, but it is not the works themselves that save.

That many Mormons are unaware of certain doctrines is no excuse, and it does nothing to make Mormonism a valid Christian denomination, much less the One True Church that Joseph Smith was adamant about in his book "The Pearl of Great Price," calling all other churches corrupt and abominations before God.

Remember a few Christian doctrines that are very important:
1 - God is eternally existing in a place that is outside of space and time as we know it. They are, in fact, His creations. God does not change, and He has always been God.
2 - Jesus is God Himself, not merely an exalted spirit.
3 - Satan and Jesus were never spirit-brothers. Even before Satan's fall, Jesus was God and Satan was not, ergo Satan was his subordinate.
4 - Salvation is by grace through faith(a living faith that produces works), and is not by works.
5 - While they may add to or supplement previous revelations, new revelations from God cannot contradict previous revelations. For an example of many conflicts between the Bible and Mormon doctrine -- http://www.irr.org/mit/bombible.html (It's not an exhaustive list, but it's a start)

It may also be noted that I don't care what early church fathers said. It's obvious from actually reading the Bible that they were speaking on matters that the Bible is quiet about. In other words, they are not authoritative. The Bible is the final authority, and I refuse to hold beliefs that are not supported by it regardless of what some of the early church fathers thought.

LittleShepherd wrote: It may also be noted that I don't care what early church fathers said. It's obvious from actually reading the Bible that they were speaking on matters that the Bible is quiet about. In other words, they are not authoritative. The Bible is the final authority, and I refuse to hold beliefs that are not supported by it regardless of what some of the early church fathers thought.

You have it right Little Shepherd. The Bible is the final authority. I follow along in my Bible when listening to preaching or teaching. That is how we can catch lies or honest mistakes. Later we can ask a question about what something in the sermon meant and if it doesn't line up with the Bible, you can either correct him or shake the dust from your feet and find a Bible believing Church.