Evidence for God from Science

Sadasius wrote:Well for one God did not create hell. Hell was a word that was made up from the Vatican to insight fear to bolster its flocks of sheep. Hell actually came from the name 'Hel' who was the daughter of Loki in Norse mythology. Loki being the lord of the underworld. So put the two together and add an 'l' and voila it solves some supremecy and political issues the church had at the time to help elevate the need for killing innocent people and walk away with clean hands. All in the name of righteousness!

Here is the link to find more on 'Hel' <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(being)" target="new">Hel on wikipedia</a>

Actually Hell was used before the Norse God Loki was even thought of

Deu 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Job 11:8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?

Interesting though is how little Church History you really know. The Vatican did not need to inspire fear into anybody since It already says in the Bible to Fear the Lord and it shows roughly 54 verses that cite Hell.


What is also Funny is the Wiki Dictionary which is written by anybody who has enough time on his/her hands. It therefore does not mean it is correct!

Here are some of the stuff it says about Hell from Judaism (note before the Norse God)

Judaism
Judaism does not have a specific doctrine about the afterlife, but it does have a tradition of describing Gehenna. Gehenna is not hell, but rather a sort of Purgatory where one is judged based on their life's deeds. The Kabbalah describes it as a "waiting room" (commonly translated as an "entry way") for all souls (not just the wicked). The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not in Gehenna forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 12 months, however there has been the occasional noted exception. Some consider it a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Olam Habah (heb. עולם הבא; lit. "The world to come", often viewed as analogous to Heaven). This is also mentioned in the Kabbalah, where the soul is described as breaking, like the flame of a candle lighting another: the part of the soul that ascends being pure and the "unfinished" piece being reborn.

Note also that it does not even talk about the Torah mentioning Hell but just talks about the Kabbalah which is not even Scripture. Also it does not say it has a specific Doctrine which is hogwash.

quote wrote:Gehenna is not hell, but rather a sort of Purgatory where one is judged based on their life's deeds. The Kabbalah describes it as a "waiting room" (commonly translated as an "entry way") for all souls (not just the wicked).

Byblos, are you thinking what I am thinking?

FFC wrote:

quote wrote:Gehenna is not hell, but rather a sort of Purgatory where one is judged based on their life's deeds. The Kabbalah describes it as a "waiting room" (commonly translated as an "entry way") for all souls (not just the wicked).

Byblos, are you thinking what I am thinking?

Of course, unless you're think of the other thing I'm thinking, in which case we're both dammed to H.E. double hockey sticks (I wonder what wikipedia would say that originated from).

Byblos wrote:

FFC wrote:

quote wrote:Gehenna is not hell, but rather a sort of Purgatory where one is judged based on their life's deeds. The Kabbalah describes it as a "waiting room" (commonly translated as an "entry way") for all souls (not just the wicked).

Byblos, are you thinking what I am thinking?

Of course, unless you're think of the other thing I'm thinking, in which case we're both dammed to H.E. double hockey sticks (I wonder what wikipedia would say that originated from).

I think it might be a place reserved just for people who put their faith in wikipedia articles.

Seriously, Gehenna, the way it is described here, sounds just like puratory. Especially the "for all souls (not just the wicked)" comment.

FFC wrote:Seriously, Gehenna, the way it is described here, sounds just like puratory. Especially the "for all souls (not just the wicked)" comment.

Yes it does. It's possible that that's where the idea of purgatory came from. I see a similarity with the Bema Seat Judgement of Christ as well as I've explained in the Catholicism and Mary thread.

This used to be a question that I could never give a fully satisfying answer to. I've since stumbled onto a concept (at EdwardFudge.com) that puts it in what I now believe is the proper perspective.

The idea of people burning forever in hell actually started around the 2nd and 3rd centuries. There seems to be a lot of misinformation related to this subject. The bible, as I read it, does not teach that souls cannot die and that people suffer conscious torment throughout eternity.

• Only God possesses immortality — 1 Tim.6:16
• Only God can destroy both body and soul in hell — Matt 10:28
• The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life. — Rom. 6:23.
Only the saved receive the gift of “eternal life.” The lost do not receive the gift of eternal life; they are ultimately destroyed.

The life and the death in this passage both concern the Age to Come. Each lasts just as long as the other. The saved will be resurrected immortal and deathless to enjoy life with God forever. The lost will be raised for condemnation — but they are not given immortality or deathlessness. Instead they perish in the Second Death, and are gone forever, hence the phrase "eternal destruction". They are destroyed forever. The destructive process might well involve degrees of conscious torment according to God's perfect justice, but the final result is the same. The wicked truly die, perish, and are destroyed forever.
• God will give immortality to the saved in the Resurrection — 1 Cor. 15:42-44, 50-55. If one looks up every scripture passage that mentions “immortality” in connection with human beings, immortality is always attributed to the saved, never to the lost.
• The saved will live forever in the New Heavens and New Earth — Rev. 21:1-5
• The wicked will also be raised, but for condemnation rather than life — John 5:29; Dan 12:2.

After judgment the wicked will be cast into “The Lake of Fire and Brimstone” also called the Second Death — Rev 21:8. There they suffer the punishment of eternal destruction — 2 Thess. 1:9 which is the “eternal punishment” that Jesus warned about in Matt. 25:46. The final result is the same. The wicked truly die, perish, and are destroyed forever.

“Eternal salvation” does not suggest an unending or ongoing process - but rather it is the result that lasts forever (Heb. 5:9). The same is true of “eternal judgment” (Heb. 6:2), and “eternal redemption” (Heb. 9:12). You are not judged eternally, but the result of the judgment is eternal. You are not constantly redeemed eternally, but the result of the redemption is eternal. In the same way, “eternal punishment” is not “eternally punishing,” and “eternal destruction” is not “eternally destroying.” Eternal punishment means the punishment itself is eternal because the results are such that the dead will never live again.

The lost will be raised for condemnation — but they are not given immortality or deathlessness. Instead they perish in the Second Death, the Lake of Fire, and are gone forever.

Many conscientious Christians cannot conceive that the God who loved sinners so much that he gave his Son for them, intends to preserve the lost alive for the sole purpose of torturing them throughout eternity. God will raise the saved into immortality and incorruption, but Scripture is silent about the wicked receiving either (1 Cor. 15:50-58.) The lost will be raised but to condemnation rather than to live forever (John 5:28-29.)

Whoever believes in Jesus will not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:16). This implies that those who do not believe in Jesus will perish with no everlasing life.

This was a very well thought out response. I guess this helps answer my question I had posted in theology about going to hell.

HELLO,
THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY STUMBLING BLOCK TO CHRISTIANITY.
WHEN ANYONE IS BORN THEY ARE AUTOMATICALLY DOOMED TO HELL IF THEY DO NOT BELIEVE, HARDLY SEEMS LOGICAL OR "BENEVOLENT" TO ME? ARE THEIR ANY ANSWERS TO THIS BESIDES "GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS?"
I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT KIND OF MAGIC ANSWER I EXPECT, I AM JUST LOOKING FOR SOMETHING MORE SATISFACTORY THAN ALL THE "FREE WILL" ANSWERS.
MOST SINCERLY, BRET

LASTSANEONE wrote:HELLO,
THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY STUMBLING BLOCK TO CHRISTIANITY.
WHEN ANYONE IS BORN THEY ARE AUTOMATICALLY DOOMED TO HELL IF THEY DO NOT BELIEVE, HARDLY SEEMS LOGICAL OR "BENEVOLENT" TO ME? ARE THEIR ANY ANSWERS TO THIS BESIDES "GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS?"
I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT KIND OF MAGIC ANSWER I EXPECT, I AM JUST LOOKING FOR SOMETHING MORE SATISFACTORY THAN ALL THE "FREE WILL" ANSWERS.
MOST SINCERLY, BRET

I posted some time ago, but again I draw attention to Craig's debate regarding "Can a Loving God Send People to Hell?" I would highly recommend reading it as it should at least help you to gather your own thoughts together on this topic. I'

"If God really is all loving, then how can He send anybody to hell?" The question is almost an embarrassment for Christians today. On the one hand, the Bible teaches that God is love, and yet, on the other hand, it warns that those who reject God face everlasting punishment, and it contains frequent warnings about the danger of going to hell. But aren't these two somehow inconsistent with each other? Well, a lot of people seem to think that they are inconsistent, but in fact this isn't at all obvious. After all, there is no explicit contradiction between them. The statement "God is all loving" and "Some people go to hell" are not explicitly contradictory. So if these two are inconsistent, there must be some hidden assumptions which would serve to bring out the contradiction and make it explicit.

...

(Read the rest at http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcrai ... dley1.html)

A loving God will send people to hell, but the punishing will not last forever. The ones cast into hell, or the lake of fire, will burn up and be gone forever, with no chance of a second resurrection. So it is the punishMENT that will last forever, not the punishING.

I have done a Bible study on this question and come to the conclusion that it could go both ways: everlasting torment forever and ever, or, the frying pan until Judgement Day, then into the fire for a quick burn until crisp.

Does it matter? I think not. Neither end is the wedding party promised to the rest of us.

FL

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:I have done a Bible study on this question and come to the conclusion that it could go both ways: everlasting torment forever and ever, or, the frying pan until Judgement Day, then into the fire for a quick burn until crisp.

Does it matter? I think not. Neither end is the wedding party promised to the rest of us.

FL

So are you trying to say where you are going to spend eternity does not matter to you? And I think you forgot conclusion A: that you remain dead, neither in the fire or frying pan, until the resurrection.

Jenna asked:
So are you trying to say where you are going to spend eternity does not matter to you? And I think you forgot conclusion A: that you remain dead, neither in the fire or frying pan, until the resurrection.

Where I spend eternity does matter to me. What doesn't matter to me is the "mechanics" or the "living conditions" of those going to Hell.

Conclusion A: we remain dead to this world for we have returned to dust. We are, however, alive in Christ, conscious and apparently with a body...not asleep waiting for Judgement.

FL

How exactly do you come by this belief, F.L.?

Fürstentum Liechtenstein wrote:Conclusion A: we remain dead to this world for we have returned to dust. We are, however, alive in Christ, conscious and apparently with a body...not asleep waiting for Judgement.

FL

I wonder if Lazarus was upset with Jesus...yanking him out of heaven and all...hmmm
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