Evidence for God from Science

I am a new member hear and I see a lot of people saying that people are not going by a proper conduct, when they actually are the ones pilling in the insults and attacks.

A classic example is the message before this one:

Truthbetold, I have no problem with the fact you disagree with me. The problem is you're being a jerk.

and then afterwards when a person expressed his views to this guy:

I can't type straight when you make me laugh so hard.

Personally to the last message sender:
I'd advise you look upon this message with an open mind not necessarily to considering other peoples opinions (which I am presuming you do not), but open minded to possibly seeing that you are the one who is being the "jerk" and you should not insult other peoples opinions.

It is not the opinions. Anyone can come and tell me he's an atheist and he thinks I'm wrong, but nobody can come up and rant about how evil religion is and all this other stupid stuff about how man is arrogant for believing creation is for his use without me getting annoyed.

Him saying that mankind is arrogant (which very nobely includes himself) is his opinion, and a reason he had for why christians believe they are higher than other organisms on Earth. It wasn't offensive as far as I can see.

I personally believe all organisms are equal, in fact that there isn't a sense of who is the principally better, just that whos the most dominant species.

I mean, wow i am very special being born a human (which i had no choice over at all), I therefore must be 'higher' that other organisms that happened to be non-human by chance. I dont think that if i believed that, my beliefs would be fair.

Essedarius wrote:Him saying that mankind is arrogant (which very nobely includes himself) is his opinion, and a reason he had for why christians believe they are higher than other organisms on Earth. It wasn't offensive as far as I can see.

Yeah but his most offensive material was removed, and some of his other drawl you can find in the Garbage Bin section if you'd like to go over it.

Basically disagreeing is not the problem, but making unsubstantiated value statements about the merit of another's faith is clearly an unfounded attack and does no one any good. Profanity also, is not tolerated.

Essedarius wrote:I personally believe all organisms are equal, in fact that there isn't a sense of who is the principally better, just that whos the most dominant species.

I mean, wow i am very special being born a human (which i had no choice over at all), I therefore must be 'higher' that other organisms that happened to be non-human by chance. I dont think that if i believed that, my beliefs would be fair.

How can you say that we, as humans, are equal to an afid? By what criteria ARE we equal? That's ludicrous really. Sure, we're both alive but the similarities beyond that are pretty much a stretch.

Plus, you should also realize that Christians believe that what really sets us apart is our spirit, which is created in the image of God. We have a divine nature that animals don't have.

TruthBeTold wrote:you know why i don't kill people, or animals for that matter, not because some book told me it was wrong, because i know it is wrong. I don't want to see any being in any kind of harm, i don't need a god to tell me this.

The bible said: The Spirit will convict the world of sin...not just the Christian. Ever wonder if ur concept of right & wrong won't actually from urself but from God?

TruthBeTold wrote: and no i have not been reading any marxist literature, but you being a religious person, one who is easily controlled, would obviously associate the word "commie" with negative connotations being that you have also accepted the control system of capitalism, which has brainwashed you into thinking that a society based off of "capital" is far superior to one based of of "community".

U'll be surprise that one of the 1st assembly in NT smells actually "commie". They sold all & came together sharing what they have. Unfortunately...human nature makes it quite impossible to continue life that way. It's the sin nature of man.

TruthBeTold wrote: The animals understand their pointlessness and they aren't out there killing for the sake of killing. What are they doing...they are merely existing.
The problem with man, is this idea that we are better then everything else, and therefore we must have a purpose. This idea that because we can question our existence and our purpose, must thus mean we have a better purpose then every other being.
We are no different then any other living being. Accept in our pompous self righteous pride in our selves

I'm not too sure what the animals do or do not understand. But I've the notion that there's a special relationship between God & the animals. Perhaps, animals don't worship or make high places like we do simply because they don't need to, as they are "not fallen", unlike man. It's indeed man's pride that may have led us down this path. Human don't built altar & make sacrifices before the fall. Thus u may be right, the ability to question our purpose is not indicative that we're a higher being. It may perhaps be a result of a broken relationship with God. However, in some way, human are indeed higher (in the sense Adam is higher than Eve...not that Eve is inferior to Adam), since God put human incharge of the garden & the animals within.

By what criteria are we not equal?

Like I said, I don't actually think we are equal:

in fact that there isn't a sense of who is the principally better, just that whos the most dominant species.

I really dont think we shud think that we are the most righteous species on the planet how an earth do you judge that? - just the most effective in survival.

just to add a new thot to the topic.

Base on the book of Job, it is interesting to note that at the end of it all, what Job had lost, he got back double....all except his children....which was the exct number he lost.

One theory to that is that human are everlasting. Job did not in effect lost his children but had been brought apart for a moment (in his physical earthly lifetime). Thus when he was blessed with the same number of children, he actually had double the blessing in this area as well, for his 1st set of children are waiting for him in heaven.

If the above is true, we can also conclude that animals do not go to heaven when they die, which explain why their population was doubled.

Though on its own the argument is rather weak, it is a good addition to the evidence against animals going to heaven in the Bible.

AttentionKMartShoppers wrote:Though on its own the argument is rather weak, it is a good addition to the evidence against animals going to heaven in the Bible.

Do explain the weakness if this argument is stand alone.

Because I said so of course.

Well, because you have to do a lot of inferring. You could easily have several counter-arguments/excuses thrown up. It could have just been that God knew Job couldn't handle that many kids. It could have been that God was rewarding Job for his perseverance by doubling his wealth, and children aren't necessarily signs or components of wealth.

I mean, wow i am very special being born a human (which i had no choice over at all), I therefore must be 'higher' that other organisms that happened to be non-human by chance.

The only problem is that other organisms aren't nonhuman by chance. They're nonhuman by design. Also, it doesn't' matter, because they aren't spiritual beings. They can't fall, but then they can't have a personal relationship with God to begin with. They're an important part of creation, necessary for our survival, but that's all. The point of all of creation is to support human life. The point of human life is to reflect the glory of God.

And you're right that humans aren't any better than animals. Arguments can be made that we are, in fact, worse than other creatures since when we do harmful things it's most often by choice rather than mere instinct. Again, that's irrelevant. We were chosen by God for His own purposes. We're the only creatures that are made in His image, the only creation given a spirit. He proclaimed the rest of His creations good, but never gave them a spirit with which to communicate with Him.

I don't know why He chose us. I don't know why He gave us dominion over the other animals, including the right to kill them for food and clothing(though not the right to be cruel to them, and the responsibility to be good stewards of all He entrusted us with). And in the end, it doesn't matter. He did, and I'm just going to enjoy it.

We're higher than the animals because He placed us there. It's not by any merit on our part. We can say that we are more valued than animals, and that we have dominion over them without any sense of pride because we recognize that our enviable position is only by the grace of God.

Anonymous wrote:By what criteria are we not equal?

Like I said, I don't actually think we are equal:

in fact that there isn't a sense of who is the principally better, just that whos the most dominant species.

I really dont think we shud think that we are the most righteous species on the planet how an earth do you judge that? - just the most effective in survival.

ECC 3:19-22
This will speak of the animals, and mans spirit

you know why i don't kill people, or animals for that matter, not because some book told me it was wrong, because i know it is wrong. I don't want to see any being in any kind of harm, i don't need a god to tell me this.

I think you feel that way because of God. He is in you, though you don't believe. Why then would you feel "right" and "wrong"? Why don't you wish to see any being in any harm....I admire you for this...but wonder where you feel your attitude originated from?

I personally don't see in the bible where animals won't go to heaven. I won't argue it, but I tend to think there is room in heaven for all of God's creatures. If animals, like humans, have spirits and are created with eternity in mind, then the fact that they have to go somewhere to exist would indicated that they would most probably go to be with their creator.

Actually, I think the question people should ask themselves is whether they think they themselves are going to heaven...because unlike animals they have sin natures and are either going to heaven or hell. Jesus died on the cross to settle that question...so if you want to go to heaven you need to ask yourself whether you believe that Jesus died on the cross to take away your sins and give you eternal life, or will you take your chances and continue on the same " I am all that I need to be happy " path and possibly end up separated from God for all of eternity.

Despite my ignorant and untolerant attitude sometimes, I don't want the latter for any of you.

God bless
FFC

When I read [Bible] Ecclesiastes 3:19-22[Bible] I get the impression animals do not have a spirit and when they die they die. When I read Isaiah [Bible] Isaiah 11:4-9 It tells me animals will be around. Any thoughts?