Evidence for God from Science

hmm..
but that's a moral absolute <i>if</i> you believe in the scripture. sure, it's straight across the board <i>if</i> you believe or acknowledge this moral absolute given out by a person/being/thing.
sure, God sets the precident, but if one is say, a Buddhist, a Satanist, an Atheist, then their certain moral absolutes apply to them. i spose what i'm trying to say is, they <i>are</i> different for every person depending on who or what they worship/belive in and if they do at all.
(btw, this kinda made sense in my head this morning, but now i'm putting it to page it gets all muddled so i hope you can see the reason in this)
and yes, you can interpret everything yourself. there is nothing telling you what to do unless you decided it is so.
it's like what my father tells me:
"no-one can tell or force you to do something. you always have choices and you can always interpret the outcome. if something doesn't turn your way, or turn out the way you planned, this is because of you, nothing else. not the Bible, not the Kuran, not your mom and not your dad, it's up to you to pull the trigger at the end of the day and wander down that path. nothing can or should tell you other wise. be your own person."
i spose my dad's more into taking responsibility into your actions then blamming something or someone else if your chosen path goes wrong.
ergo, you are responsible for you, what you believe in, what you do and evently, what your path will be.

and KMart...
homosexuals do love each other. that's just ignorant to say they don't. on the rebound, does a man lust after his chosen partner? it would be kinda silly if he didn't. there can be a balance between lust and love. i suggest talking to one to find out. there are many different types out there and amazingly, they're just like hetrosexuals. i don't see why anyone brings them down so much. it's so 1950's.

on another topic, i raise this question to you:
is surrogacy ok in the christian view given that it is derived from IVF?

yet again, class calls. later days.

but that's a moral absolute if you believe in the scripture. sure, it's straight across the board if you believe or acknowledge this moral absolute given out by a person/being/thing.
sure, God sets the precident, but if one is say, a Buddhist, a Satanist, an Atheist, then their certain moral absolutes apply to them. i spose what i'm trying to say is, they are different for every person depending on who or what they worship/belive in and if they do at all.

My sociology teacher told us this story-a guy from China came over with his family, and moved to New York. He was later brought up on the charge of beating his wife to death with a hammer, because she had an affair. Now, in the US, that is illegal, and he should have been sent to jail-but the judge found out wife beating is all right in China, gave him 5 years probation. The problem with that, though, is the guy was under US laws, and the laws don't condone wife-beating, they condemn it. He basically got away with murder because his rules didn't say it was wrong-and I believe imprisonment should have been his punishment. In the same way, God is the creator of the universe, we live in His universe, and we're supposed to play by his rules. If we are ignorant of His rules, or ignore His rules (He gave everyone a conscious, so nobody who didn't have the written Law had an excuse for doing wrong), it doesn't matter if we deny deny deny-reality is reality, and we broke God's rules.

be your own person.

Your life is not your own. You did not give yourself your life-God did.

lust

sinful longing; the inward sin which leads to the falling away from God (Rom.
1:21). "Lust, the origin of sin, has its place in the heart, not of necessity,
but because it is the centre of all moral forces and impulses and of spiritual
activity." In Mark 4:19 "lusts" are objects of desire.

Concerning homosexuals, they do not have the love I am referring to-eros (erotic love, love between man and woman)...because it doesn't fit the definition. And I'm not trying to bring them down. Everyone is a sinner, it's just that their sin....is an abomination (the act is sinful, not the thought itself...).

on another topic, i raise this question to you:
is surrogacy ok in the christian view given that it is derived from IVF?

There is a surplus number of abbreviations in this world-I think we're too lazy. What is IVF?

going backwards...
IVF - In Vitro Fertilisation
AI - Artificial Insemination or Intra-uterine insemination (UI)
GIFT - Gamete Intra-Fallopian Transfer
ZIFT - Zygote Intra-Fallopian Transfer
ICSI - Intracytoplasmic Sperm Injection
thought IVF was a well known kinda word, but maybe i've just spent too much time in bio.

homosexuals...
i disagree. sure, according to the bible it's a sin (what they do physically), but so is what hetrosexuals do. everything concerning that (a sexual act in that a physical act) within the bible seems to condem it. so in turn, isn't that saying, what you do with your wife a sin? so in turn, you're sin (that is, if you're married), is an abomination. they aren't dirty things, and they do have erotic love just as between a man and a woman. their love is no different from the love i share with my life-partner. the only difference being the gender of the people.

next...
be your own person. yes, granted God did give you life. but He gave you a mind to make decisions for yourself. He gave you a brain and an individual thought process from every other being in this world. He gave you a brain to make or break decisions for yourself. His purpose, yes, is present in everything, but you decide who you are.

and again...
the law and china. the law and the bible although co-exist, are some pretty different things. if we wanted to take all of what the bible says, every single little bit, and make it law (yes, i know many people follow the bible as law, but not everyone does) it would be religiously biast. when you move into a country, esp. a major country, "ignorance is not an excuse" (btw, got this from my legal teacher so mersh).
although just like the bible, the law does, and is, interpretted. this is why they have court systems.
again, i spose what i'm trying to say, and going into more depth is, yes, a person will have moral absolutes, but if those moral absolutes conflict with the law, the law will and does over-ride those morals and values.

moose wrote: homosexuals...
i disagree. sure, according to the bible it's a sin (what they do physically), but so is what hetrosexuals do. everything concerning that (a sexual act in that a physical act) within the bible seems to condem it. so in turn, isn't that saying, what you do with your wife a sin? so in turn, you're sin (that is, if you're married), is an abomination. they aren't dirty things, and they do have erotic love just as between a man and a woman. their love is no different from the love i share with my life-partner. the only difference being the gender of the people.

Homosexual acts are explicitly a sin :

Romans 1:18-32
Leviticus 18:22
Leviticus 20:13

Sex is never condemned when it is between a man and a woman and not adulterous. Adultery is sin, sex is not.

can we clarify this...
homosexuality is a sin *according to the Bible*
yet what about the Christians forgiving for sins? what about not passing judgement on people?
and what about the animals of God?
homosexuality is common in the Animal Kingdom, especially in species closer to humans on the evolutionary scale, such as the great apes. some believe that this behavior has its origin in male social organization and social dominance. However others reject that theory citing homosexuality in species that mate for life and female homosexuality.
gay male Penguin couples have been documented to mate for life, build nests together, and use a stone to replace sitting on an egg in the nest. In 2004 the Central Park Zoo in the United States replaced one gay male couple's stone with a fertile egg which they then raised as their own offspring. courtship, mounting, and full anal penetration between bulls is common among american bison. the Mandan nation Okipa festival concludes with a ceremonial enactment of this behavior, to "ensure the return of the buffalo in the coming season. homosexuality in male sheep (found in 6% - 10% of rams) is associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and chemical activity. They concluded that biological factors are at play. This study replicated similar findings in humans that approximately 10% of males are homosexual as well as the brains of homosexual males are different.
and sure, it is condemned within the bible. but doesn't the bible also teach us to accept and not judge?

Animals don't have a soul. Animals also bash each other's brains out over females. Would you like to make that socially acceptable? Honestly, drawing your morality from the animal kingdom is one of the stupidest things you can do. Oooo, mokeys do it, let's do it too!!!

-_____-

moose wrote:can we clarify this...
homosexuality is a sin *according to the Bible*
yet what about the Christians forgiving for sins? what about not passing judgement on people?
and what about the animals of God?
homosexuality is common in the Animal Kingdom, especially in species closer to humans on the evolutionary scale, such as the great apes. some believe that this behavior has its origin in male social organization and social dominance. However others reject that theory citing homosexuality in species that mate for life and female homosexuality.
gay male Penguin couples have been documented to mate for life, build nests together, and use a stone to replace sitting on an egg in the nest. In 2004 the Central Park Zoo in the United States replaced one gay male couple's stone with a fertile egg which they then raised as their own offspring. courtship, mounting, and full anal penetration between bulls is common among american bison. the Mandan nation Okipa festival concludes with a ceremonial enactment of this behavior, to "ensure the return of the buffalo in the coming season. homosexuality in male sheep (found in 6% - 10% of rams) is associated with variations in cerebral mass distribution and chemical activity. They concluded that biological factors are at play. This study replicated similar findings in humans that approximately 10% of males are homosexual as well as the brains of homosexual males are different.
and sure, it is condemned within the bible. but doesn't the bible also teach us to accept and not judge?

10% is such an innacurate number... it's more like 1% you realize,

We do not judge, the Word says that homosexual acts are sinful, therefore they are sinful. You're not listening to a word I'm saying are you?

no, i am. probably just making as much headway as i want *assignments*
and i know, animals aren't a good point. and i did agree with you on that the Bible does consider homosexual acts to be sinful.
hm... oki, moose isn't making too much sense today.
on another topic all together (i know i should post a new topic, but still), is surrogacy a bad thing given that it is derived from IVF, GIFT and ZIFT technologies.
thoughts?

be your own person. yes, granted God did give you life. but He gave you a mind to make decisions for yourself. He gave you a brain and an individual thought process from every other being in this world. He gave you a brain to make or break decisions for yourself. His purpose, yes, is present in everything, but you decide who you are.

Yes, agreed.

I'm guessing the China, America, Bible, God thing didn't fly. What I was aiming at was this-it doesn't matter what your personal morals are-if they are not God's, and you do something that is wrong to God, even though it's right to you, it's still wrong.

yet what about the Christians forgiving for sins? what about not passing judgement on people?

Hate the sin, love the sinner. We're condemning the sin....but don't automatically assume we're condemning the sinner. If I were to meet a gay person, I'd hate the fact he's a practicing homosexual....but I would still try and do my utmost to love him and tell him about Christ.

abortion-wrong; still, i believe the individual has the right to choose. abortions should be minimized through education/prevention of unwanted births.

homosexual marriage-homosexuality (the behaviors) are wrong, but i believe homosexuals should be allowed unions (call it something other than marriage if you want!).

stem cell research-ok if infants used died of natural causes (e.g. stillborns, miscarriages); i can't see many parents "donating" their children's bodies to science, though.

mastermind,

no one but God knows if animals have souls or not.

moose,

people are not governed by any of the laws which govern all of God's other creations. because he gave us free will, we are responsible for our actions, and able to override our impulses/drives.

colors wrote:mastermind,

no one but God knows if animals have souls or not.

moose,

people are not governed by any of the laws which govern all of God's other creations. because he gave us free will, we are responsible for our actions, and able to override our impulses/drives.

Some animals have souls, these are animals people can form relationships with, such as cats and dogs, you can love your dog and your dog can love you back right?

However only humans have spirits.

Dan wrote:

colors wrote:mastermind,

no one but God knows if animals have souls or not.

moose,

people are not governed by any of the laws which govern all of God's other creations. because he gave us free will, we are responsible for our actions, and able to override our impulses/drives.

Some animals have souls, these are animals people can form relationships with, such as cats and dogs, you can love your dog and your dog can love you back right?

However only humans have spirits.

Is there scripture to say that animals have souls??

I don't think they do, but I had a strange experience in fourth grade that I'm still trying figure out. I'm glad to get to share it with people I know will have thought-provoking responses, but I'm nervous a little too because I honestly don't know what to make of it.

I was lying in bed trying to make myself tired, staring at the "popcorn" on the ceiling, when all-of-a-sudden a rounded off, white square appears above me, and in it I see an old dog of mine that died when I was only four, but whom I cared for very much. She had a longing look in her eyes that said she wanted to come to me, and after a little bit she started to move like she was going to jump right onto me, and according to long-standing memory that a former friend could attest hasn't changed since then, she put one of her paws right through the square and out into the space above me.

I instinctively braced as if to prepare for her jump onto me, but just as she was about to a bare foot appeared in the square wearing a white tunic just above the ankle. She looked up at this being, (presumably an angel,) and as soon as she did the square disappeared. I swear that I was wide awake and it was not in my mind.

My best guess is that it was an illusion created by a demon to confuse me, as demons so often do to people. Ghosts and "E.T."s and spirit guides are common ways they do this. And a few years later I did encounter demons using ghost ploys to draw me away from God, and it worked to a certain degree, but God reeled it all in after letting me experience enough to gain knowledge of these things.

Like I said, I don't believe animals have souls because they distinctively belong to humans alone... no, I mean spirits. Souls I'm not sure about; they're different than spirits. And I'm leaning toward a demonic illusion, especially because those with God don't want to leave Him, but what takes do you guys have?

Yes, I'm sure Satan thought it would be a brilliant idea to show you proof of the supernatural to draw you away from God.