Evidence for God from Science

ocho:

i apologize.

kateliz:

i take my sins very seriously. i'm just tired of being attacked for things i've done. i'm just trying to learn about stuff. when i hear other views i am able to appropriately alter my own if i believe i should. can't i have a conversation without someone telling me i'm a sinner? i see your points. they are good points.

ochotseat:

i take back that apology. i just read the rude comment you made:

just because you may want to use it legally doesn't mean others do. you're ignoring medical science for personal reasons.

first of all, i have not smoked since i became christian. you really have a problem, man.

secondly, medical science demonstrates the many positives of marijuana for medicinal purposes.

Prodigal Son wrote:ochotseat:
secondly, medical science demonstrates the many positives of marijuana for medicinal purposes.
.

It never has. That's why the Supreme Court prohibited it for "medical use" today.

Prodigal Son wrote: what, i've used? everyone knows that.
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Crystal meth?

Prodigal Son wrote: oh, yeah, and i've had sex with a prostitute.
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Why would anyone want to have sex with a prostitute in the first place?

Prodigal Son wrote: what's the moral difference between alcohol and marijuana?
.

I explained that earlier and so has medical science. You can't seem to understand that for some reason.

Prodigal Son wrote: as for prostitution, legalizing it would lessen the spread of disease and increase the safety of prostitutes.
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No, it won't because rapists typically don't frequent prostitutes, and prostitutes can catch a deadly STD any time. That's why HIV is spread even today in the "regulated" porn industry. Legalizing it will only send a negative message to people. Laws are supposed to legislate morality, and most Americans oppose prostitution. It's called democracy.

Prodigal Son wrote: it would better their social status, and improve their lives and the lives of their families.

No one forced them to choose one of the lowest professions. There's a reason why many feel they deserve to be outcasts.

kateliz wrote: And prostitutes need more help than that. Most of them have been sexually abused, (according to statistics I once heard,) and so it's about more than money and making end's meat.
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Where have you read that most of them have been sexually abused?
Even if they have been, it doesn't excuse their actions.

kateliz wrote: Stripping should be illegal too.
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There are some restrictions to stripping in all states, but federally banning stripping isn't really realistic.

kateliz wrote: And commercials and other ads should be strictly censored.
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We have that now.

kateliz wrote: Soft porn is normal for movies and TV and widely accepted nowadays, but nobody calls it that.
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Maybe on cable.

kateliz wrote: Pornography should also be illegal.

You want to nationally ban pornography?

ocho:

crystal meth?

whatever.

no one forced them to choose one of the lowest professions. there's a reason why many feel they deserve to be outcasts.

there's not an ounce of love in anything you say, dude. i will pray that changes for you.

oh yeah, and kateliz is right, most do come from backgrounds of abuse. you've made us all aware you don't care about that.

Prodigal Son wrote: ocho:
there's not an ounce of love in anything you say, dude. i will pray that changes for you.
.

There's a reason why conservatives criticize harlots, drug users, criminals, homosexuals, bums, and other people in the fringes of society. They do it out of compassion. Think about it.

Prodigal Son wrote: oh yeah, and kateliz is right, most do come from backgrounds of abuse. you've made us all aware you don't care about that.

Read more carefully next time. Many people come from abusive backgrounds, but they end up becoming productive citizens.

ochotseat wrote:

Prodigal Son wrote:what's the moral difference between alcohol and marijuana?

I explained that earlier and so has medical science. You can't seem to understand that for some reason.

I can't find that post. What is the moral difference ? [I have only used one.] For example, relative to number of users, do more drinkers or smokers cause vehicle accidents ?

sandy

ocho:

there's a reason why conservatives criticize...they do it out of compassion...

i thought about it. i don't get it.

many people come from abusive backgrounds, but they end up becoming productive citizens.

eveyone is different. different people have different reactions; different levels of intelligence/social skills; different levels of resilience. there are also many people from good environments that do not turn out to be productive members of society. everyone is an individual. prostitutes, bums, criminals, drug users, homosexuals, etc. are all people with feelings and unique lives. Jesus loved to dine with misfits.

sandy_mcd wrote:I can't find that post. What is the moral difference ? [I have only used one.] For example, relative to number of users, do more drinkers or smokers cause vehicle accidents ?

Alcohol in moderation is almost entirely free of harmful effects; in fact it might even be helpful.

Drunk people clearly cause more vehicle accidents than smokers. In addition, even minor drinking probably necessitates a designated driver. However, drinking and driving is different than just drinking.

And cell phone users cause accidents as well. This doesn't mean cell phones are evil. Like moderate drinking, they are perfectly fine in some contexts but should not usually be mixed with driving.

Although naturally it would be wrong for me to drink, since I am under the age of 21. In Romans 13 we are called to obey the government.

Nonetheless, smoking has no useful purpose and has solely harmful effects. Smoking is almost always irresponsible. Medical marijuana might be responsible, if there is any truth to the "medical marijuana" claims. I haven't examined enough evidence to reach a conclusion for myself on this one. If there is responsible medical marijuana, it is just like drinking in moderation - not a sin.

i have read that marijuana reduces pain for many illnesses and is also quite useful for treating glaucoma.

Prodigal Son wrote:ocho:

there's a reason why conservatives criticize...they do it out of compassion...

i thought about it. i don't get it.

I'm not ochotseat, but I think I know what he's saying. Think about the following: What about telling smokers that smoking causes lung cancer? What about telling them that what they are doing is irresponsible?

While smokers may not like the message, it can motivate them to improve their own lives in very positive ways.

This is equivalent to a godly attitude towards sin.

Prodigal Son wrote:eveyone is different. different people have different reactions; different levels of intelligence/social skills; different levels of resilience. there are also many people from good environments that do not turn out to be productive members of society.

Everyone is also capable of transcending their background. We should seek to lead people to what is best for them, and we should do it in the most loving way.

Prodigal Son wrote:everyone is an individual. prostitutes, bums, criminals, drug users, homosexuals, etc. are all people with feelings and unique lives. Jesus loved to dine with misfits.

There is a quote that covers this one quite well, "Love the sinner, not the sin."

We need to accept and minister to prostitutes, bums, criminals, drug users, homosexuals, etc. However, we are obligated to NOT accept their destructive and sinful lifestyles. The godly attitude should be a desire to see them come to Christ and truly live, as is best for them.

With homosexuality, I can easily show you two false views. Incidentally, neither of the sites I am about to link you to can stand up to logical scrutiny.

The view that we should ignore sin:

http://epistle.us. Here we see very little concern for the will of God.

The view that we should hate sinners:

http://www.godhatesfags.com. Here we see incredible prejudice and bad theology.

These are BOTH VERY FALSE. I have seen far too many people assume you're either one or the other.

sandy_mcd wrote: I can't find that post. What is the moral difference ? For example, relative to number of users, do more drinkers or smokers cause vehicle accidents ?
sandy

Because illegal drugs are physically, mentally, and morally more noxious.
Why's that hard to fathom?

Prodigal Son wrote: ocho:
i thought about it. i don't get it.

Think harder.

Prodigal Son wrote: eveyone is different. different people have different reactions; different levels of intelligence/social skills; different levels of resilience. there are also many people from good environments that do not turn out to be productive members of society. everyone is an individual. prostitutes, bums, criminals, drug users, homosexuals, etc. are all people with feelings and unique lives. Jesus loved to dine with misfits.

Yes, and everyone has free will. A misfit may deserve both pity and judgment.

Prodigal Son wrote: i have read that marijuana reduces pain for many illnesses and is also quite useful for treating glaucoma.

You read wrong. I quote the recent AP news article:

The Bush administration has taken a hard stand against state medical marijuana laws, but it was unclear how it would respond to the new prosecutorial power.
John Walters, director of national drug control policy, defended the government's ban. ``Science and research have not determined that smoking marijuana is safe or effective,'' he said.

ocho:

think harder.

hmm...still rubbish.

a misfit may deserve both pity and judgement.

and who deals out judgement...i'd like to know.

you read wrong...

there's so much more that states otherwise. besides, nothing with bush's backing should be taken seriously.

jerickson314:

compassion: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it.

criticize: to consider the merits and demerits of and judge accordingly 2) to find fault with: point out the faults of

love: affection based on admiration, benevolence, or common interests;
the fatherly concern of God for humankind; a person's adoration of God

1Corinthians 13:4-7 love is patient, love is kind. it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. it is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. it always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

evil: causing discomfort or repulsion; causing harm; something that brings sorrow, distress, or calamity

criticism does not alleviate distress. it causes sorrow and distress. it doesn't bring people to God, it pushes them away. criticism is more often than not (at least the type i've heard from many "conservatives") rude and condescending. maybe there's another word conservatives should be looking at to guide their version of love. i don't want to love like that.

kateliz:

i have modified my view on prostitution. i no longer favor its legalization. prostitution hurts everyone involved both physically and spiritually. legalizing it would be like saying to those in its grasp: "you are worthless. its okay to keep hurting yourself, we don't care. you can never be anything else. all you're good for is to bring other people pleasure and you can only do that in a negative way."

that's not loving people so it's wrong.