Evidence for God from Science

ocho:

please don't make comments if you aren't willing to follow through constructively. i can make my own decisions regarding my well-being. i am not harming anyone. i am growing in the Lord. i don't appreciate it and it's annoying.

others: and, yes, a high percentage of people with antisocial personality disorder (sociopaths/psychopaths) have some type of brain-injury which contributes to recidivism. but, social programs in effect also do nothing to aid in reform, which doesn't help. but, most importantly, wiring doesn't make a difference when we are talking about God. He can change and fix all things. if someone demonstrates they are walking with the Lord by consistent/appropriate actions/emotions/speech, we should have no problem trusting them (e.g. Paul). or, do we not believe in the power of our Savior? do we still doubt?

Deborah wrote:
Exactly what do you think christianity is ?

Accepting Jesus as your Savior. What do you think it is?

Dan wrote: Ochot, your stand-point might be tolerable from a non-christian, but hardened hearts aren't Christ's.

Sounds like you have some beef with fundamentalist Christians.

ochotseat wrote:

Deborah wrote:
Exactly what do you think christianity is ?

Accepting Jesus as your Savior. What do you think it is?

Dan wrote: Ochot, your stand-point might be tolerable from a non-christian, but hardened hearts aren't Christ's.

Sounds like you have some beef with fundamentalist Christians.

No, he has a beef with your general callousness, and I do to. Play nice

Dan wrote: No, he has a beef with your general callousness, and I do to. Play nice

I doubt even most Christians could fully entrust a parolee.

ochotseat wrote: The 12-Step Community, in its entirety, is an integral part of the Miracles Prisoner Ministry Program and the reintegration of former inmates into mainstream society. Here is a real opportunity for you to personally practice your own 12th Step.

it is the very mainstream society that makes thing grave problem. Though I don't have the statistics on my hand, I was often informed of the inmates being sort of sarcastic and anti-social which they had found intolerable and reacted with sinful offence. Interviewed by many they usually have justifications on their own as though it is the mainstream society faulty.

I figure that the issue we have to address is: is mainstream society ethically ok? An advertisement in subway stations in my living place captions some figures that our folks lavish on meals at the amount that can keep populations of over billions from starving in Africa where death toll is almost a few person every minute. Who can put up with this? While it seems appropriate to embrace the parolees back to the so-called mainstream society, which ironically is fed with inequality, racism, malicious and discrimination.

As long as we are thinking about welcoming the prodigal ones from prison it doesn't mean that a guy who are never imprisoned is ethically better off and trustworthy.

Shouldn't we think about it carefully?

It seems to me that trust is something to be earned. Your knowledge of a person's history is going to affect how much you trust them.
It should not determine on whether you forgive them though. You can forgive someone but it does not necessarily mean you trust them. I do not trust anyone I do not know. They could be a convicted felon or not. It really does not matter. Even the most spiritual Christians have the potential to choose their sinful nature. It is a matter of what you would trust them with. Some people you would trust your life with. Some you would trust with your children. Some others you may know are Christian, but you would not trust them with your children.

It is very much how Jac describes trusting Christ. Christians have trusted Christ for their salvation and are certain of that. But they may not trust Christ for everything in their daily life. Although we should trust him for all thing, many of us still choose to try to do at least some things our self without trusting. But I have gotten off subject here. Whether Jacs description of trusting Christ is accurate or not (which I do think it is), I think this it IS a pretty good example of trusting people.

You might trust people for some things but not for others. And as they become faithful with the little things, you may begin to trust them with bigger, more important things. I think this is how God deals with us. The more faithful we are, the more he gives us to be faithful with.

I think we can also have faith and give someone the opportunity to prove they are trustworthy in a certain area while still having doubts whether they are worth trusting. But as I have already stated I believe you only do this once they have proved themselves trustworthy in less important things.

Any way this is an interesting discussion, please continue....

Has anyone read the story of Charles "Tex" Watson and his conversion to Christianity? He was a member of the Manson Family and killed along with the others and Charlie. He has a website with all sorts of articles.

YLTYLT wrote:It seems to me that trust is something to be earned. Your knowledge of a person's history is going to affect how much you trust them.
It should not determine on whether you forgive them though. You can forgive someone but it does not necessarily mean you trust them. I do not trust anyone I do not know. They could be a convicted felon or not. It really does not matter. Even the most spiritual Christians have the potential to choose their sinful nature. It is a matter of what you would trust them with. Some people you would trust your life with. Some you would trust with your children. Some others you may know are Christian, but you would not trust them with your children.

It is very much how Jac describes trusting Christ. Christians have trusted Christ for their salvation and are certain of that. But they may not trust Christ for everything in their daily life. Although we should trust him for all thing, many of us still choose to try to do at least some things our self without trusting. But I have gotten off subject here. Whether Jacs description of trusting Christ is accurate or not (which I do think it is), I think this it IS a pretty good example of trusting people.

You might trust people for some things but not for others. And as they become faithful with the little things, you may begin to trust them with bigger, more important things. I think this is how God deals with us. The more faithful we are, the more he gives us to be faithful with.

I think we can also have faith and give someone the opportunity to prove they are trustworthy in a certain area while still having doubts whether they are worth trusting. But as I have already stated I believe you only do this once they have proved themselves trustworthy in less important things.

Any way this is an interesting discussion, please continue....

it is complicated indeed to look into the issue of trust. I'm inclined to think that there are absolute and relative trusts - two different things.

To God we can absolutely trust. It is beyond all arguments, I bet. Nonetheless it is not the sense as YLTYLT said, to entrust the Lord with everything and we do virtually nothing waiting for food and clothes coming. I think Christians refer to spiritual trust where God is someone to take refuge and shelter spiritually that energises us in our deeds for goodness and rid us of the fear when we do righteous things and are afflicted with persecution. Sure they are not going to put God into the babysitter over us even wrt tooth-brushing, bathing and changing clothes, are they?

To people I think relative trust is important. This trust can be dynamic with time. Today we trust someone because we get well along with him. It doesn't mean that he won't change when we meet again after years of separation. Whether some one is trustworthy is a relative term to others else. Siblings are surely more trustworthy than fellow workers and wives are more trustworthy than mistress (as some people may have such a stance interestingly). As for what we can entrust them with as YLTYLT has mentioned, it is the ability of the trustee that counts, and not an issue of trust any longer. A guy who is able to take care of your child may not be trustworthy enough to entrust him with your child, may he?

Because of the uncertainty in trusting people, I think risk management is essential in interpersonal interaction. in particular we find we have to trust we keep the interaction under our control. One has to be tactful and skilful that is something we should learn.

Oriental.






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[quote="Oriental]
Nonetheless it is not the sense as YLTYLT said, to entrust the Lord with everything and we do virtually nothing waiting for food and clothes coming.
[/quote]

I am sorry I did not mean it in that sense. I meant it in the sense of always listening for God and taking God's word over our own and obeying it. I guess I should have stated it that way. Many people may know God's word but choose to ignore it, even though they have trusted Christ for their salvation.

YLTYLT wrote:
I am sorry I did not mean it in that sense. I meant it in the sense of always listening for God and taking God's word over our own and obeying it. I guess I should have stated it that way. Many people may know God's word but choose to ignore it, even though they have trusted Christ for their salvation.

Sorry I have mis-interpret what you said. Yes we should both know and obey God's words. I agree.


Oriental.



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