Death

[j316]

Well, NDE research looks credible but on the flip-side it doesn't at the same time. It is very convincing, however:

I wouldn't expect to see heaven or hell in a near death experience, after reading Hebrews 9:27.

makes a good point. Straight from the Bible. Society has gotten WAY out of hand in my own idea.

How do you you reconcile that with Paul's statement about those who sleep? If he meant die he would surely have said that

[jerickson314]

How do you you reconcile that with Paul's statement about those who sleep? If he meant die he would surely have said that

To which statement in particular do you refer?

[Kurieuo]

I wouldn't expect to see heaven or hell in a near death experience, after reading Hebrews 9:27.

I'm inclined to agree from my own theology. Yet, at the same time I'm open to the possibility some go to a place away from God, while some go to a place where God's presence is felt.

Whether or not the rich man and Lazarus story is based on a reality of the afterlife (see Luke 16:19-31—'hell' within this passage is actually 'hades' [also known to be the abode for the dead]),, or more for a story about fairness and showing love to others, I think it raises the possibility that there exists two different places for people awaiting final judgement.

I think this raises an important question though. If people with NDEs experience something against Christianity, then what are Christians to make of them? I can only explain how I would sort through them. Firstly I believe any natural explanation should be exhausted trying to account for the NDE, and so an effort is made to sort the true from the false. In the case of the Pam woman, I see that there are strong indicators she saw and heard things in the physical world when her body couldn't possibly do so. Of course I'm trusting in the information provided by others, and although one can challenge this point, I currently see no reason not to trust those who examined this case. Now as Pam had seen and heard things that actually happened in phyiscal world while the doctors were operating on her, I believe we can to some extent trust her experiences on the spiritual side of things. And after listening to what she said regarding what she experienced on the spiritual side of things, I saw nothing which necessarily contradicted Christianity or my own Christian theology.

I believe that while such things should be taken lightly to build any sort of Christian doctrines upon since a) NDEs can be different and I wouldn't be surprised it even some accredited ones would be, and b) Christianity also believes in deceiving spirits; they do offer some interesting and in my opinion hard evidence that needs to be reasonably explained by those who advocate life ending upon the death of our physical bodies.

Kurieuo.

[Believer]

Christianity also believes in deceiving spirits

Well, yes that is true, I have seen many websites myself on NDEs and the deceiving spirits. But then comes a problem, if these spirits are to deceive the person and most of these NDEs take place in a heavenly setting, then why do some people experience the void and emptiness of a hell like setting, people coming back from this hellish state saying what they experienced is in somewhat of an agreement with the Bible whether being literal or not. I would think deceiving spirits would want every true experiencer of an NDE to see the heavenly setting.

[j316]

How do you you reconcile that with Paul's statement about those who sleep? If he meant die he would surely have said that

To which statement in particular do you refer?

I should know better by now than to just rely on memory. In Thessalonians Paul refers to those who sleep but it appears that he is contrasting the heathen dead to those who die in Christ. In the same paragraph he also refers to the dead rising with the living at the end, so there is apparently no support there for an immediate assumption to heaven.

One thing that did occurr to me though is if preterism, and partial preterism, are correct then heaven exists right now and presumably the christian dead should go there. The catholic churches, not just the RC, speak of the church as the saints both here and in heaven. To them it is one church in both locations.

[Believer]

Something on NDEs and OBEs. I'm not sure if it is atheistic or not, just randomly found it because I felt like it . Opinions? It's a long read.