Sorry, MoS, I had missed this.
ManOfScience wrote:You might be right that, if everyone immediately turned to Christianity, the world would be a much better place. In fact, I'm sure you're right. I'm also sure the same would apply if everyone turned not to God, but to the Flying Spaghetti Monster instead.
However, in neither case would we find ourselves in a perfect world. There are still plenty of things for people to fight over. Money, property, land, women, soccer, etc., etc.
You misunderstand me. I'm not saying that the world would be a better place because everyone would agree. That wouldn't solve lots of evil problems. I am saying that, THEOLOGICALLY speaking (which is what your question is), the Christian position is that when all the world turns to God and acknowledges their need for Him, He will then turn to the world and restore it.
Philosophically, we understand evil to be a privation, not a thing in itself. Just as darkness is a lack of light and cold is a lack of heat, neither being things in and of themselves, so evil is a lack of goodness and is not a thing in itself. But goodness is the presence of God, so evil is understood to be the lack of God. God has, to a greater or lesser degree, withdrawn from the world, at OUR request, and the logical and necessary result is the "presence" of evil.
Capiche?
I tend to disagree: I value my life quite highly.
I'm speaking of intrinsic value. You may value a particular stuffed animal because it has sentimental value to you, but that doesn't mean it has any intrinsic value. Your life, if God doesn't exist, has no value.
You're right: there is no point. In fact, like has no point. Such a concept doesn't make sense, as all life came about through a series of (lucky?) random events.
If God doesn't exist, you are right. If God does exist, then life did NOT come "through a series of (lucky?) random events." Now, pay attention to this VERY carefully:
You cannot use the meaninglessness of life to disprove the argument I am making here. That is question begging.
Whether or not life is meaningless is irrelevant to the question at hand. I simply brought it up to
illustrate the reason for the basic premise, namely "you NEED God." Now, by your own admission, life has no inherent meaning if God does not exist, and in fact, the idea of life's meaning is absurd on atheistic grounds. Thus, in order for life to have meaning, you NEED God. And that is His point. You NEED Him for your life to have meaning--intrinsic meaning--and not just that, but for more as well. Philosophically, you need Him for your very existence, but that is another argument.
If you're right... what a bastard, no?
For letting us have our way? What is the alternative? Divine rape? Forcing Himself upon us? Repeating the mantra for all of eternity "You need me" and not give us the evidence that He is right?
This is a trial. It is a test run. To return to the analogy I used before, it is a like a child insisting she can tie her own shoes when she can't. A wise parent will let her try and try and try until she gets frustrated, and then, they will stoop down to her level and do it for her. Are they bastards for teaching their child a very valuable lesson about their own limitations?
People often fall into one of two errors as it relates to their capabilities. On the one side, the believe that they can do ANYTHING. Sadly, that just isn't true, and the sooner we realize that we are not capable of some things (and for each individual that will be different) the sooner we can move on do excelling in what we CAN do. On the other side, people fall into the self-debasing argument that they are incapable of doing anything, so they never really try. Like all things in life, the truth is found somewhere in the middle. There are some things we can do, and some we can't. In all things, we need God, and we are completely dependent on Him.
You, I would be willing to bet, don't think you have much of a need for Him. You believe you can get along just fine without Him. And that, my friend, is the reason there is still evil. You are still trying to tie your shoes, and God is still patiently waiting for you--along with the rest of humanity--to see your need for Him. We are promised that we eventually will. It's not like God is being totally passive. He is working human history in a way that will ultimately help us come to that conclusion--here, we could change the analogy to a math tutor helping a child come to the correct sum, not by telling him the right answer, but by teasing out of him all the reasons his proposed answers are incorrect.
While, then, we all wait for everybody to get it, YOU as an individual get to decide if YOU get it or not. If you don't, then you don't, and there are eternal consequences. If you do, then there are eternal rewards.
Hope that clarifies things. I don't expect you to believe this is TRUE, but it is the right answer to the question. If nothing else, you can at least, I presume, see the consistency in the logic, even if you disagree with the fundamental premise and thus the conclusion.
